Online Sports Betting & Live Betting Odds at SportsBetting.ag

Anyone who has bet online seen the $50 max bet you can make on the SB winner scoring at least 1 Point in week next season?

Edit::: that's for week 1.. It's an even money bet. They obviously hold the money for 7 months. But who wouldn't do this? Or am I missing something?
submitted by stu_padassol to sportsbook [link] [comments]

33K Zone Hands - 25K 200NL, 8K 50NL, and my two cents.

33K Zone Hands - 25K 200NL, 8K 50NL, and my two cents.
Been playing poker live for about two years now, sprinkling some online tournaments here and there. I never formally "studied" poker, just the occasional Doug Polk/Alec Torrelli/etc. Youtube video.
First time grinding zone poker initially bought in $500 at the start of the pandemic playing 50NL, noticed that 200NL was noticeably easier with the influx of fish and (hugely irresponsibly) hopped onto the train. Moving back down to 50NL since I continuously withdrew and the seas got over-fished. Sharing my results, along with some opinions/points for discussion.
I'm not a pro, or consider myself to be a great player. Sample size at 33K hands is still iffy, but I think results are consistent enough to take some points from. All thoughts are against "population", which should be largely competent and regular Zoners.
$4263 profit ($5296 All-In Adj.) for 8.76BB/100
VPIP: 25.4
PFR: 18.42
3!: 9.11
Chart (in BB):
https://preview.redd.it/veq5tkhfhgn51.png?width=1540&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef18df578ed36234e277851fb57d163073da772a
Results by stake:
https://preview.redd.it/gdskkpv1ign51.png?width=1249&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e72192a6ffa2d726d0c5987d94eec2c27f153b1
Luck bell curve:
https://preview.redd.it/95wzdd87ign51.png?width=1588&format=png&auto=webp&s=de00d217443be4b261828f699776d7bf1378cf12
Leak Analysis (All positions):

https://preview.redd.it/zm7lepkbign51.png?width=388&format=png&auto=webp&s=1616fd6739c6ce5694dc6c709bad593a4a916000

https://preview.redd.it/t2tcwfrcign51.png?width=376&format=png&auto=webp&s=43b1f77cf48e26776f5f2b552b08aedbf3e9e118

Key thoughts, pretty basic stuff that can be deduced from this still limited sample size
1) Can't stress this enough - position is VITAL. I have a relatively loose-ish UTG opening range (Used to open KJo and ATo, any pocket pair, all suited aces. Working on changing that. Range opens up drastically as I'm later position. See below:
https://preview.redd.it/osuuudvomgn51.png?width=981&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ef3de6977e9a4ea5c6dd95107fd8a1ffa0f1f62
2) 3! prints money. Regardless of the the hand (mostly) or position, 3-betting yields consistently higher profits than cold calling, which leads into 3 -
3) Cold calling is losing money. True for both open raises, and calling 3!s. A 3! or fold strategy from OOP definitely makes sense. Position makes up for this partially. Sample size limited.
4) Players (mostly) respect position - EP raises don't face loose calling ranges from outside the blinds. 3!s are much tighter when you're EP compared to later, especially button. Leading to 5-
5) SB has the loosest 3! range, especially vs button.
6) KJ/KT/QJo/Maybe ATo are trash hands. They rarely win large pots, and get you in more trouble than they're worth, especially from or against EP opens.
7) Trash suited aces are trouble. Not worth playing from EP, or calling EP opens. Not sure whether to 3!/fold these, call behind and risk facing a squeeze, or even open them from MP.
8) Still no idea how to play pocket Jacks.
Points of interest, looking for discussion or experience from someone with larger sample size:
1) Facing AIPF/Jamming with QQ/AKo - Both these hands seem marginal in AIPF scenarios. Assuming 100BB stacks, 2.5/3BB opens, standard 3!/4! sizing (3x IP, 4-5X OOP, 2-3X 4! sizing) - maybe it can be broken down by position? Fold QQ/AK to EP jams, and call against BTN?
2) BB 3! tendencies - Definitely tighter than SB. How does PFR position affect this, does squeeze opportunities tighten or loosen this?
3) BTN 3! tendencies - you can get away with anything on the button. How does their range look vs. EP/LP opens?
4) 4! bluffing (idea as a whole). Definitely makes sense when you're facing BTN open and SB 3! while holding wheel ace, AQo, or something of the sort. You want to be holding an ace in your hand right?
5) Merged 3! ranges? From the SB I'll 3! ATss+, KQo+, 77+, wheel aces, and mid SCs, mid-high SGs against button open, and tighten this for earlier raises. How do other marginal hands, like K8ss, Q9ss make for a 3! semi-bluff?
6) Open range construction for suited aces.

Cheers,
submitted by yolosansuzuki to poker [link] [comments]

Tales from 2+2: The Biggest Loser at Microstakes of All Time, A Story of Struggle

Link to Previous Tales From 2+2: Poker player steals $1m+ chips and tries to sell it on 2+2 poker forums
More Tales From 2+2: A Very Controversial $70k prop bet
Tales from 2+2: Homelessness, Grinding and the Biggest Shot of a Grinder’s Life: The Jared Huggins Story

The Blossoming of TV Poker

The Year is 2006. Online poker is thriving. Partypoker has the highest traffic of any poker site but Pokerstars are gaining new players quickly with aggressive marketing strategies. Lots of poker sites are investing heavily into marketing and one key place to channel their advertising budget is TV. New innovations, improved graphics and increasing funding meant that poker TV is at an all-time peak of popularity.
40% of the the 2006 WSOP Main Event’s attendance is from online sites and poker sites are offering large amounts of cash for players on TV to wear an advertising patch. According to Dan Goldman’s blog, Pokerstars spent over $730,000 on WSOP players’ gift bags. The WSOP is seeing more TV time and this year the $50k HORSE event is added to the TV schedule alongside the WSOP main event. This year’s $50k WSOP HORSE final table saw some huge names including Chip Reese, Phil Ivey, Patrik Antonius and Doyle Brunson.

The Path of a New Player

In Finland, Mikael Paisting is watching the 2006 WSOP on TV. He enjoys watching poker broadcasts and is fascinated by the game. It’s a very common story for players to catch an interest by watching poker TV and sign up with to one of the many poker sites available. He chooses to deposit on Partypoker. Mikael is a committed learner and player. He reads several poker books from well-known authors such as Dan Harrington and David Sklansky. He also watches many training videos. Like many players starting in online poker he begins at the microstakes cash tables.
Microstakes are a rite of passage for many online poker players. The limits range from 2nl to 10nl, so the standard buy in is $2-10. Some will play microstakes for weeks, months or even years improving their game and increasing their bankroll so they can move up to small stakes, 25nl and above. Some players see the microstakes as a job and play as many tables as they can to eke out a living wage. Some players have never played microstakes and skip it entirely for higher stakes. Mikael starts to play and doesn’t do well, this is normal for many beginners, even those who study. However, over the next few weeks Mikael continues to lose. Months go by and Mikael still hasn’t turned a profit. He discovers problems with tilt and often takes his frustration out in the chat box. An example of his rage:
Paisting:THAT IS NOT NORMAL OMG!! JUST UNBELIEVABLE
Mikael doesn’t play 10nl very often and spends the majority of him time playing 2nl and 5nl. He continues to multitable cash games on Partypoker but he just can’t win. He starts to lose big, thousands of dollars, mostly at 2nl which is known as the softest cash game on the internet.

Getting Noticed

Mikael continues to play long sessions over the next five years, he claims to play 5-7 days a week for 4-8 hours a day. By 2011 he had played 2 and a half million hands while playing 6 to 9 cash tables at one time. Mikael is still mostly playing 2nl and is down a colossal amount: $7000. Mikael has been suffering from major tilt problems and has a very wild and noticeable style of playing microstakes. He starts to get noticed on 2+2, a very popular poker forum. A player posts a link to his PTR graph, a site which tracks online cash games. They are shocked at his losses over so many hands:
yegor: wow such a massive fail
he played 2.5m hands at 2nl and 5nl and he's losing
Donkey111: I remember him from my 2NL days.
often goes on some massive tilt sessions and spews like 20 BI in 500 hands by shoving any 2 cards preflop.
He even gets hate from his PTR account where he is ridiculed on his profile comments, he also replies:
VELAir26: Spend your time with family, friends or other hobbies instead
Paisting: im fine with this you stupid idiot
Mikael continues to play his reckless and tilting style over the years. By 2014, he has been playing for 8 years and is down five figures at microstakes; he starts to look for excuses for how much he has lost. He posts a thread on 2+2 detailing how he feels that he wins at the start of the month and then inevitably starts to lose. He asks how he can take legal action against Partypoker. His fellow posters tease him:
5thStreethog: Did the thought ever cross your mind that it might be possible that the reason you cant beat NL2 in over a million hands might be because you arent very good at poker?

An Attempt at Redemption

2019 comes and Mikael Paisting has been playing microstakes for 13 years, and steadily losing a lot of money. He got a new computer in late 2018 and has been grinding away on it. Mikael is getting mentioned more on 2+2 and he is well known on the tables of Partypoker as he drops stack after stack. Many players on Partypoker furiously try to get on his tables to call his tilt shoves; when Mikael is present other player’s stacks can get as high as $100 at 2nl as he shoves buy in after buy in to button steals. Some were said to be using seating scripts to instantly be placed on a table with Paisting. At this point he is feeling very low. But despite years of losing money and insane tilting he is determined to improve. Mikael is aware of his losses and has a fierce desire to make back the money he has lost since he’s started tracking on his new PC.
He decides get help and he looks to 2+2, the very same forum that had mocked him over the last decade. He logs in as Paisting, his last name. He starts a new thread, types out a post and chooses a title: 'Biggest loser in online poker history wants to grind $16k'. He posts this thread in the sub-forum Poker Goals & Challenges, a place where players post their goals and try to update their thread with their progress. He posts graphs of his losses from his database on his PC. He starts the thread by posting some shocking graphs of $8700 lost at 2nl, $6000 lost at 5nl and $800 lost at 10nl. At 2nl he had an incredible rate of -170BB each 100 hands. The final graph of his microstakes losses posted show $15,000 lost over 365,000 hands. An average loss of $75 a day.
The 2+2 poker community are stunned by the graphs:
HorseofHell: I'm actually shocked it's possible to lose this much at 2nl
Mahsjdj: This can't be real can it?
Mikael posts about the hard work he’s put into poker and mentions that has watched videos, read many instructional books and is honest with his astounding losses:
Paisting: I've lost literally all my money including all my life savings to online poker. I want to try one last time to win those money back and little bit of extra. That's why $16k. What I need is support and guiding.
The community react to his plan to grind all the money back at microstakes:
Fodersneso: This is really disturbing.
Why on earth would you try to grind this all back? Losing at this rate is traumatizing. You're going to grind out 3000 BIs @nl5 now or what's the plan? Really curious how you think you can turn this pile of insanity around...
The community show disbelief and doubt that his story is real but several posters claim that what he says is true. He has been active in Finnish forums for more than 10 years and players starts to share hand histories and stories about his playstyle. He posts about his regret of picking the game up:
Paisting: Never had a winning week in 13 years.
If it were possible to go back ten years I would say to myself "Do not never play single one hand!"
He then goes on to tell 2+2 posters a disturbing source of his funds for his staggering 2nl losses:
Paisting: I've taken huge amount of fast loans.
He sheds a little light into his personal life:
Paisting: My age and relationships has nothing to do with this. But not working, no kids or wife and middle aged. What I have is time to play.
I get a little unemployment benefit that goes straight to the rent. My eating costs are very little because I'm only eating one meal per day. There are times when I must take more fast loans if need of clothes, unexpected bills, sickness etc. That's why getting back those $16k is so important to me.
No disability, never played anything else than poker or lottery when pots are bigger, maybe 5 times in year. Playing poker does not give me any excitement or I'm not cheering won pots.
Posters try to give him strategy advice, they try to persuade him time and time again that shoving 100+ blinds to a minsteal isn’t a good idea. Some others question his sanity and tell him to quit:
FazendeiroBH: Not trolling, I´m actually serious here. You lost an absurd amount of money playing the easiest stake in the world (nl2). You keep losing doing the same faulty strategy. No book ever said you should jam 100 bb preflop rfi. It´s quite obvious there is something wrong with you and your brain, and the more you delay seeking professional care for your mental problems, the worst it´s gonna be for you.
Paitsing updates his thread with highlight hands from his cash sessions. He seems to cherry pick hands to post and will only post hands where he loses all ins as a 70-95% favourite. He delusion leads him to blame the site, his luck and the other micro grinders. He often writes about specific players and gives his opinion on how badly they play. He often quotes their HUD stats and wide calling ranges while ignoring that they are probably adjusting heavily to his own playstyle. Some time passes and he discloses that he has lost almost $500 at 2nl since starting the thread three weeks ago.
He updates his followers with the first monthly graph of the thread from his 2nl play in April 2019. He plays for 90 hours in April and his average daily loss is $50, 25 buy ins each day. 2+2 players start to analyse the graph. They notice that there are several breakeven spots where he may be playing reasonable poker but also huge 150 buy in downswings, some drops in the graph are so steep that he is losing about a buy in every 5 hands for periods of hundreds of hands. He says:
Paitsing: Only trying to get my money back from guys who are playing nl2 forever and never moving up. When I started poker long time ago I tought it's exciting to read watch videos if it gives me more money. After 2 years figured out it's just sitting on computer like in work and if I'm someday +-0 never ever playing this stupid game. This is like war.
The thread goes on like this for almost a year. The thread repeats itself over and over. He will post a few selective bad beats, ignore good advice and berate his microstakes tablemates. A fellow microstakes grinder makes his first appearance in the thread: 6betpot. 6Betpot would play at Paisting's tables and often win many buy ins, 6Betpot would go on to post highly contrasting hand histories to the bad beats that Paisting posts, he would also reveal Paisting’s preflop 3 bet is around 30%. Some players would criticize 6Betpot for predatory behavior but 6Betpot would maintain that he would try to persuade Paisting to stop playing in a spewy manner. Someone asks to see the hands and 6Betpot posts some, here is one:
888 Poker - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
BTN: 250.5 BB
SB (Paisting): 425.5 BB
BB: 101.5 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 106.5 BB
CO: 84.5 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) BTN has AdQs
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Paisting raises to 425.5 BB and is all-in, fold, BTN calls 248.5 BB and is all-in
Flop: (502 BB, 2 players) Kh4s4c
Turn: (502 BB, 2 players) 3h
River: (502 BB, 2 players) Jc
BTN shows AdQs (One Pair, Fours)
Paisting shows 5s Js (Two Pair, Jacks and Fours)
Paisting wins 471 BB<
Later in the thread Paisting would reveal his line of thinking during hands like these; a poster asked why he though 3 betting hands like J5 was a good idea. Paisting replies:
Paisting: If you don't want them to run over you, you must do something. Blind play is very important and you can't let them run over you. When 80+ habit stealer gets shoves straight to his face he must learn at some point that I'm not giving blinds.
Many tried to reason with him and show him clearly why this was wrong, he not only refuted their strategy but would argue against them, often citing his opponent’s HUD stats.
Later on in the thread Mikael posts horrifying news. He explains that he didn’t transfer hands from his old computer to his new computer. The graphs he posted at the start of the thread only showed the tip of the iceberg. He reveals that $16k loss from the graphs was from just 7 months of play!:
Paisting: That 16k is in 209 days and in about 1 year as you can see from the first post. Big part of my losings has left to hard drive of my old crashed computer. That's past and I don't wanna think about it anymore. Main goal is this database I have here in my computer. But yes what I have been repeating many times, moving to 888 poker has sky rocketed my losses although I can play only 6 tables compared to party's 9 tables.
Posters speculate that his lifetime microstakes losses probably amount to six figures:
SpinMeRightRound: I mean if he's lost $20k in the last year, and he's been doing this for more than 10 years, he may have lost $200k or more.
In late 2019, Paisting claims that there was a ring of players were colluding against him. He goes on to say that the new site he plays on, 888, were asking for hand histories from certain players. He showed emails of his communications and posted that 8 players had had their account frozen. He also shows screenshots that his account is temporarily frozen during the investigation. Posters speculated:
CrunchyBlack: Pretty sure they think you're chip dumping lmao
.isolated: They think you're chip dumping to him. Funniest. Thing. Ever. The irony here is nearly palpable.

2020: The Struggle Continues

At the end of the year Paisting posts his 2019 graphs. He says that he hasn’t had a winning week yet and he’s still committed to making back 2019’s losses. His graphs show down 12k from 320k hands of 2nl in 2019.
In January 2020 he continues to post regularly and makes comments about him hunting down players worse than him:
Paisting: When you hunt really bad player (yes enzet there are plenty of worst player than me on 888 look those hand histories really carefully) hours and hours and wait good hand just to site let them to suck out it is affecting your game really badly.
He posts about his continuing struggle to win back the $16k:
Paisting: I have years dedicated for this project and anything back from that amount is winning to me. At this point it’s impossible to make any profit because of horrible suckouts.
He also posts about the high interest loans he’s taken out:
Paisting: I have huge amounts of loans that are basically all taken for poker. I don't eat much and all my other costs are very low.
And because of those loans I must get back so much money that is possible and these suck outs must stop.
February 2020 arrives and he posts his January chart, the worst posted yet. He takes a gigantic loss of $1,550 at an eye-watering rate of 210bb/100 hands. Often when he posts monthly graphs he would highlight that he ran a few buy ins below EV when he would be down hundreds of buy ins for the month.
The months pass and the cycle continues. Paisting posts the usual bad beats, posters berate him and try to give him advice and Paisting resists their efforts. Here is one of many similar hands posted in February:
888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
UTG: $1.46 (73 bb) Paisting (MP): $7.45 (373 bb) CO: $15.44 (772 bb) BU: $2.00 (100 bb) SB: $3.47 (174 bb) BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) 1 fold, Paisting(MP) raises to $7.45 (all-in), CO calls $7.45, 3 players fold
Flop: ($14.93) 6c7c4d (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($14.93) Ts (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($14.93) 8h (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $14.93 (Rake: $0.93)
Showdown: Paisting (MP) shows 7dTc (two pair, Tens and Sevens) (CO) shows JsJc (a pair of Jacks) Paisting (MP) wins $14
March comes and the regular monthly graph is posted. The uploaded graph shows is he down $1900 or 950 buy ins for last month. Mikael refutes that he is a gambling addict:
Paisting: 888 has given many 10 dollar bonuses to me play slots. I have never played them and in fact my account has 20 dollars freeplay bonus to play their slots. I will not use those money now or in future. So that's gambling addict to you.
April and May roll by and the monthly graphs are posted. He played fewer hands than normal, 43,000. But is down $1,250, all at 2nl.
In June he posts the usual monthly graph with -$1900 and it’s the lowest win rate he’s posted before, a colossal -335b/100hands, the graph has some alarmingly steep downswings with one section where he loses $500 in 1000 hands. That’s a loss of one buy in every 4 hands. Getting these monthly updates shows how quickly he loses money at 2nl and collaborates with earlier estimations that he is likely down more than $100k at microstakes over the past 14 years. Approximations indicate that Mikael has paid over $20k in rake to poker sites over the years.

The End, for Now

Mikael is still playing microstakes to this day. His poker story isn’t over yet but so far it is a sad one. My previous two Tales from 2+2 stories had mostly happy endings but not this one. This story is like a car falling down a cliff and it hasn’t hit the bottom yet.
Let this story be a lesson that poker isn’t for everyone. Players with addiction or mental issues should reconsider if the game is best for their lives. Serious poker players should consider bankroll management and how tilt affects their winrate if they do choose to play.
Seek help if you think you or others need it.
Original thread (Still active)
submitted by GiantHorse to poker [link] [comments]

Call of the Mountain Discord event AMA: Riot responses

Hello friends! I read through all the responses from the Riot AMA on discord a few hours ago, collated and formatted them here for you all who didn't see them on discord. I cut out some of the preamble "Hey i love the game", "Thanks for the question" stuff but other than that I'm pretty sure everything is here, but I might have missed one or two so if I have, I apologise :(
4 wonderful Rioters took part: @DanCast, @Dovagedys, @Bearly Leah and @Careless Whisper. Thank you all for your time answering the questions!

Do you sometimes go around reddit or other media platforms to create new ideas for a card?

DanCast: We go around LoR player communities on reddit and elsewhere quite often, not for new card ideas specifically, but to understand what players are liking and not liking about the game. Better understanding people's impressions and desires factor into what we make in the future more broadly.

What was the process like play testing for the balance of this segment of the Targon release year, specifically the new region of Targon itself? Was Targon created holistically then segmented, or has development and balancing always been aware and aiming for the current style of a segmented release for the region? As the only other region expansion we’ve seen so far, Bilgewater seems like it could have been wildly different in terms of both thematic resonance and balance if it and the other original 6 regions new champions added in Rising Tides had been separated into segments. And if Targon was originally created holistically do you think the segmented release will make balancing harder going forward, as some card synergies or natural archetype counters have already been developed, but not yet released?

Dovagedys: It's a complicated question with a complicated answer. Ultimately, we know we want to be able to provide new cards to everyone at a satisfying cadence. Originally, we had planned to release new cards every 4 months, but over this past 6 months we quickly realized that is not fast enough. We wanted to move to a two month cadence, but most of the work for Targon and the region that comes after Targon had already been done. We definitely did extensive play testing and balance work on each segment. We believe that all three releases bring new things to the game and are fun to play.

Your favourite Colour?

Dovagedys: Purple
Leah: Purple or blue

I am a huge fan of designing custom cards in just about all the card games I play, and some card games are very transparent with their design philosophies. While I understand LoR is a much newer game than some of those games and thus might have less nailed down in the way of philosophy; we saw relatively recently some of the design process outlined in your "From Champ Select to Your Deck" Article. For those of us who either wish to design custom content, or for those who might one day wish to apply to work for LoR as a designer, would it be possible to get many more articles in the same vein as that one? I feel as though many of the designing/custom group would love to hear what goes into the game and what considerations/values you have for each Region.

Whisper: Great question, and I'm glad to hear the previous articles were helpful. More articles on design and our design process is definitely on the list of to do. Knowing what things y'all are interested in learning more about helps us a ton!

when can I expect the other league champs with tails to be added to this game? I know you likely can't answer this but I can dream. [This was asked by someone with the discord name @TailLover :D]

DanCast: What about a champion that sometimes has a tail?

LoR's coding and way of handling various effects such as card positioning and sequencing is really fascinating. However I'm curious just how much is easily able to be modified/used for card design. For ex; Hypothetically speaking is it possible to reference the opponent's username in a levelup animation? For example with a champion say Pyke and The List?

DanCast: The tech team tells me it's harder than you'd think. We had a cosmetic concept where we wanted to put your game name on the cosmetic but we decided it wasn't going to be viable.

Hello Rioters! Thanks for helping us. Following the balance patches this summer, and the release of COTM are yall considering rexamining the presence of Aggro/Combo in the game? So far it seems that these new tools empower midrange and value stradegy in a great degree, but dont seem to have any new threats to keep them in check. Thanks!

Dovagedys: The release of Targon is still very young. I think there are still a lot of evolutions and learnings to come as people explore and the meta evolves. We are constantly evaluating the meta and working hard to ensure a healthy and diverse play experience. We want players to be able to play all kinds of decks and be able to have fun and find success. If we notice certain decks over performing we will continue our efforts to tone down cards that are overbearing and pushing other options out of the meta, as well as, buffing cards that can encourage more decks that are under represented.

Any chance of getting long term profile stats like matches played, lifetime number of 7-win Expeditions trials, the ratio of achieving 7-wins per expedition attempts etc., so I can finally prove to my friends I’m the Expedition king of LOR? Any fun stats in general or fun personal stats you keep track of behind the scenes on individual profiles you could one day share? (Numbers of Poro’s summoned?)

DanCast: Yes, we believe a player profile that contains some type of match history plus a record of feel-good stats/achievements like this is a great feature and something that provides a social foundation for seeing what other players are up to - what they pursue and accomplish. It's something we will be working on.

What is your least favorite card and why is it so?

Leah: I have a hard time playing around Ledros. It's silly but I always forget about him and then die to him! D:

About Taric's ability: Why did you "nerf" his interaction with Playful Triclster day 1? The Rube Goldberg Judgement + Challenger + Rally + Big dude is intended or will it somehow be patched out? Is his interaction w Assembly Bot intended? (He gets +1 towards the lv up if you Assembly bot on field with non-targetted spells)

Dovagedys: We knew about the Taric + Playful Trickster combo and originally intended to have it go live with Call of the Mountain. However, after some discussion among game design, play test team, and game play leadership we decided that the opponent's experience was potentially too unfun. We want to ensure that both players are having fun in our game. Losing isn't very fun, but unavoidable in a 1v1 game. However, losing slowly and being stuck in a trapped game is very unfun and avoidable. We want games that have a clear winner to end very quickly and the Taric + Playful Trickster combo had high potential to lead to games where 1 player had no mana and no actions to take, but would be forced to click OK repeatedly while Taric slowly attacked them to death. That sounds like a terrible experience and we wanted to protect players from being forced into situations like it.

I've read that LoR was planned to be available on multiple platforms (mostly mobile) very early on in the development. Was there any particular difficulty in porting the code over to mobile clients, or did you simultaniously code all the different builds at the same time? Furthermore, was there a Mac client planned that was scrapped due to the "App store streaming" MacOS has planned, or was that never a consideration?

Leah: We built the code from the beginning to prepare for mobile - so that helped us a lot being aware of budgeting needs, especially on low end devices. Certain things, like trying to constrain ourselves to memory budgets per asset (such as texture), and running memory tests per build help us know if we're exceeding our mobile limits.
This is has been pretty beneficial over making it for PC then going to mobile, as we had less fixing to do for mobile launch.

How do you decide which champions to add to each expansion? Is it more based on popularity, or how much they could bring to the game?

Whisper: Huge caveat that this will usually vary from expansion to expansion. Generally the process is we look at which champions best represent the region and can show off exciting mechanics or themes. Then we look at a swath of things like champ popularity, cool lore moments we want to expand on between champions, overall tone of the set, etc.

Seeing as there are only so many regions from Map of Runeterra not implemented in game (with 2 new regions a year), what would you do when there are no regions to implement?

Dovagedys: Right now, our plan is to focus on 10 regions in runeterra. As of Call of the Mountain we have 8.

Do you have a clear vision on what you would do once you will run out of regions to add?

Dovagedys: Yes. We have a clear plan for content that comes after our last 2 regions are introduced to the game. Unfortunately, we can't discuss future content right now, but in some cases we work on content up to 2 years before it's released.

Some other card games have taken their main characters and placed them in different colors or classes? Is this something we could see once we have all the champions in game/we need champions in less populated regions? For example Yasuo and Ahri are currently heading to Bilgewater, would we hypothetically see a Yasuo in Ionia and A Yasuo in Bilge at the same time?

Dovagedys: We have some fun ideas for how we could potentially shift champions to regions players may not initially associate the champion. However, right now we are focused on getting as many champions from League into LOR as possible.

League of Legends is well known for it's incredibly diverse range of Alternate Universes and Skins. Just recently we had a Spirit Blossom event syncronized with the LoL event at the saem time. Judging from the new render of SBYasuo, alot of us were expecting some sort of premium version of Yasuo such as a skin for the card. Seeing as that obviously didn't happen, what is the team's stance on skins for cards? Perhaps with new VO/FX/Levelup Animations?

DanCast: We have loved bringing some of the alternate fantasies to LoR through our current cosmetic products. Card cosmetics will be in LoR's future, but we're taking our time to put our best foot forward on it, including some player studies.
We have to think a lot about would players rather SB Yasuo be a skin or SB Yasuo be a new card with it's own flavor and abilities?Are there some fantasies we should do as cosmetics and others we should do new cards - can we do it both ways and have it be clear to players? That's what we think about.
Let us know your thoughts on the boards!

Hi all! Bit of a technical curiosity: in open beta, there was a bug that allowed a player to cast Spinning Axe discarding a card that was "about" to be discarded by another effect such as shown here. What was the source of this bug? Was the game engine tied to UI somehow?

Leah: That's a fun one! Disclosure I didn't work on this bug, and I don't work on gameplay itself. But from speculation my guess would be that while the card was marked for delete, there was a time in cleanup while the animation was playing that it was still clickable, and was not marked as discarded until the animation ended. So not as much to do with UI as a timing issue.

The video containing the roadmap for future content (e.g. the addition of Labs, Gauntlet, the Event) was super awesome. Is there another one like that planned? When should we expect it?

DanCast: Yes there's one being planned now. Don't expect it too soon, but we want some way to talk about the end of the year with all of you. I hope the video works out

Are there any super crazy mechanics or cards you wanted to implement into the game but scratched in the end? I'm thinking of stuff like the chicken that deals 1 damage when you hover it in Hearthstone, things that are just simply bizarre :D

Dovagedys: There are a ton of designs that the team tries that don't make it to be released. Sometimes they aren't fun, sometimes we can't balance them, or sometimes they don't fit well with the rest of the release. In general, we try not to discuss these ideas publicly too often, because we may decide to use them in a future release and we don't want to spoil the surprise.

This question is completely unrelated to this game, so I’m not sure if you guys can even answer this. I’ll be finishing my 4th year of college studying cyber security this spring. I’m still trying to figure out what sort of work I’d even want to do, but I’m just curious if you guys know of any opportunities at Riot Games? Or if there’s someone I could contact regarding this? I checked the site and don’t see any opening for security jobs currently, but did see you have a bug bounty program.

Leah: We do have teams that work in security. So it's something available, even if the position isn't open now. I would definitely work on putting together something demonstrable of your skill, portfolio/Github/etc, so when the time comes you'd be ready!

How does the team view the Spirit Blossom event? Was it a success? What were the major learnings from it, and do more events in the future seem likely?

DanCast: We do view it as a success - and our post-event player surveys showed you all liked it too! The main we want to improve from the learnings is the Quest/Win of the Day system. We want to emphasize the win of the day less, and instead have more progress come from have a more distributed cadence of quests throughout the event (not all up front). As well has have the quests be less specific (I know how you feel about challenge 100 units) On the rewards: we saw players want less shards on the event road, and some new more interesting rewards instead, so we're going to work on that.

The art and lore of LoR have been amazing! How do you choose which statline/effect goes with each art/flavor?

Whisper: Great question! During development design works closely with narrative and art to create the art with the statline and effects of the card. So it's less of "choosing" and more creating them together as one complete coherent piece. This will often mean chatting about the theme of the character, what is important about their stat line or effect, and how to best represent those mechanics in the art.

I do love alot of the cosmetics currently available in the game (Guardians, Cardbacks and Boards) Can I hear some more about future upcoming cosmetics that aren't in those categories and more ways to sink my bank account?

DanCast: But you don't love emotes?? Why can't I Jinx OMG reaction in this slack?

There seems to be many cards that seem like they are supposed to be attachted to currently unreleased champions. Is there a reason for releaseing these cards and will you be doing any else like this in the future?

Dovagedys: Cards connections in LOR are a complex network of interactions. There are many cards that are designed for specific champions, but can end up working in past, present, and future decks. We try to release cards together that we think will be the most fun and create the most interesting interactions. And we think it's fun to allude to what could be potentially coming in the future. Yes we will continue to do so in the future.

How Happy were you with the meta before the expansion hit, were you satisfied with the variety of decks played?

Dovagedys: I am extremely proud of LOR's meta since the launch of our game. Before we launched we had a goal of having a metagame that had 10 decks. And we knew that was a lofty goal. However, since the launch of LOR we have repeatedly seen metagames that have 20, 25, 30, and up to 35 different decks that are competitively viable. I am completely blown away by the metagame diversity in LOR's meta game and excited to see it continue to evolve over time.

Just like almost everyone else I love the emotes! So much personality in them and conveys really fun emotions. Especially with how rapidly new emotes are being added are there plans to allow for more emotes to be 'equipped' for a match? And of course which 8 emotes are you running now?

DanCast: Wait...are you hacking to run 8 emotes?
Yes, I would love for everyone to have more emote access. We want this, but we want to build a lot of things, so it comes down to deciding our priorities on what delivers the most player value. There may be a time where we have to work on a related feature, so an opportunity to adjust this will come up. My ideal would be an intuitive UI that's fast to use on mobile where a player could access all their emotes.
My current fav 6: Not Sure If, Wink, Cheers, Sweating, Into My Trap, and (of course) Obliteration

What was the hardest card from targon to code? Is it some card we've already seen or is it one yet to come?

Dovagedys: Taric has definitely been the most complicated card to code in Call of the Mountain.

When you're not working on LoR things, what games do you like to play? Mostly card games or do you sink your time into games completely different than the ones you work on?

Leah: I play a lot of League of Legends / Overwatch as well. I also love party games to play with friends and platformers, metroidvanias and rhythm games galore. Some of my favorite games are the Ori series, Super Mario Sunshine, Dance Dance Revolution and Beat Saber!

Some players can feel really bad when opponents are able to draw from the top of their deck (although this isn't in my opinion, an issue, but it can be considered something that inherently feels worse than your opponent drawing from the bottom of your deck). Other things that can make a game feel bad are long animations, slow draw speed, etc. I'm sure there are a ton of other things you all do to make the game feel clean and smooth to play (UI), how you can customize your own boards, guardians, etc that make it feel more like "you", along with game mechanics that feel fair. I'm happy for any answer at all! Mostly I'm impressed at how much attention to detail has been given to making the game feel really good to play as often as possible, and wondering how you work out what's working in those areas, what isn't, and what you'd like to improve.

Dovagedys: We have a lot of great plans for LOR in the future. We have worked hard to build a great foundation for the game, but this is only the beginning. Ultimately, the ideas we choose to deliver to make LOR feel better will come from the community. We want to listen and learn from you all to help us choose the improvements that you all want. I think one of the most special parts about the LOR team is how dedicated everyone on the team is to listening to players and learning how to make the game better for everyone.
DanCast: The best way to encapsulate it is the LoR team is made up of Rioters who really care deeply about the player experience and are detailed oriented and very creative at their problem solving. I'm honored to work everyone on this team.

What's the basis for your card design in terms of power level? Do you ever just think of a card and say "this card is too strong/weak" and how do you tune it to the level at which it feels juuuust right?

Whisper: Generally when it comes to power level of a have a design we ask ourselves 2 questions. Is this card sensible given the rest of the cards? If not, are there numbers (cost, power, health, effect output) where this could be a sensible card.
As for how we decide what sensible is, it's a lot of playtesting, feedback, and evaluating other cards that do similar things.

the enemy Aurelion Sol transform the allie celestials cards into 0 mana cost,is it a bug?

Dovagedys: The interaction of Aurelion Sol level 2 reducing cost of opponent's cards was a bug. We released a fixed for that bug shortly after the release of Call of the Mountain.

Hi id like to say im a huge fan of LoR im wondering what guardian you all like the most personally for me its cosmo :3

Dovagedys: Personally, my favorite guardian is Von Yipp, but it's really hard to choose because there are so many awesome guardians. And I'm excited for upcoming guardians that will become my new favorites

How much of my soul do I have to give you guys to get a spoiler to show during next spoiler season?

DanCast: How could your soul be used to provide players value? I mean if you're going to try to bribe a Rioter, do it with something that we can give back to the players.
(Thanks for being cool with this trolling)

Hi Leah :> You mentioned you don't work on the gameplay parts of the game! As someone who has no idea of what software engineers do, would you mind describing which parts of the endproduct you've been working on?

Leah: I do metagame work, on DanCast's team! So Events, onboarding, rewards, quests, end of game are the types of things my team touches. We work to make sure the "out of game" experience feels good to interact with too. There's also plenty of other engineering teams too! Such as those who work to keep our build pipelines running smoothly. And they're all essential to getting LoR out to players

One of the best parts about Legends of Runeterra are the amazing animations we see with many cards, even if they aren't champions. The recent expansion especially is incredible and very beautiful with all the designs and animations. Anyways, what's your favorite pizza topping?

Leah:Pineapple and ham Pepperoni! I'm simple but it's delicious. Also I eat the crust of my pizza first.

Would you consider diversifying the rewards in gauntlets? Because the current icon rewards are granted for the first play/win and then the mode is usually ignored by most players until a new mode/format arrives.

DanCast: Yes, but we're working on rewards that we think will be a better fit and can be more extensible than icons. Be on the watch for one of those future Dev videos to learn more (again, not too soon)

Could you guys already be planning/working on champions cards that are not found in League of Legends?

Dovagedys: we often talk about making new champions that don't exist in League of Legends, but right now we are focused on introducing as many champions from League into LOR as we can. There are over 140 champions in League of Legends and LOR doesn't have 1/3 of them yet.

Do you plan to give support to older archetypes like sea monsters and scouts in current(cotm) and future expansions?

Whisper: We do! Part of future content design is not just expansion of older regions, but also how to add to the archetypes already present.

My question is whether or not there is a plan to add in a spectate mode?

Dovagedys: We are planning to release a spectate mode in the future. I don't think we have given an exact date yet.

When LoR was finally released, was there a sick underground techno party with Poro DJs? How did you celebrate - if at all?

DanCast: LoR released under shelter in place here in LA (and in our international locations), so we ordered some desserts on DoorDash and played online games together. The poro DJs were all booked for LoR's Korean ad team

How did you join Riot, and what made you want to join Riot?

Leah: I was playing League since 2012, and that initially piqued my interest in Riot. I volunteered at a GDC (Game Development Conference) while I was in college and met a bunch of Rioters there. They were all really nice and that really made me want to join :). I graduated in 2017, and started working at another game company in Massachusetts. In 2018 Riot hit me up and after a bunch of interviews I joined!

Do you have pets, and if so, what kind, and most importantly can I pet them?

Leah: I have 2 dogs, Jax and Leo. Not only can you pet them, but they demand pets. This post not sponsored by dogs

Kind of the reverse of a previously asked question - have you designed any cards or will you design any cards soon, knowing they will be champions in the future?

DanCast: We don't have a handshake with LoL for anything like that at the moment, but we aspire to create interesting characters for the world of Runeterra that other teams can pick up and use if they wish. We just hope players love what is put out, and maybe if there's someone the community loves, they could be seen in another game or video or comic or such

I have a question: Are the cards like the Startled Stomper Zoe's creation? (if not hers, is it a creation from her friends?)

Dovagedys: I'm not sure if Zoe creates them or transforms them, but she is definitely involved.

Are there any champions that you agreed to never release?

Dovagedys: No. We hope to release every champion some day.

Whats your favorite ranked reward icon? this includes color difference from the ranks.

DanCast: Diamond Season of Plunder
Alas, I ended Plat that season (just like every season)

A large number of champions are based on their "lore" forms rather than translations of their LoL gameplay; what goes into deciding what to focus on for champions? Thresh has an ability much closer to his ingame whereas Karma is entirely about her lore rather than how she acts in gameplay.

Whisper: There are a number of things we tend to look at when focusing on the champion. What is their role in the set, what mechanics do we want to show off through the champion, are there any narrative/story beats we want to hit with them. Usually we try to find what is the version of this champion do we want to design, and then go from there.

when you design a champion, do you always have a primary archetype / deck in mind or do you intend multiple different uses for it? how important is champion versatility as opposed to the cohesiveness of its archetype?

Dovagedys: It varies for each champion. We want all champions to feel special. Some of them are designed with a very specific deck in mind, like Nautilus. Others are designed with multiple decks in mind, like Shen. And yet others are more general, like Twisted Fate. However, we do want every champion to have at least one deck they are best in.

In roughly 3 weeks I'm gonna start my enrolment in a game development degree. As someone who lives in Portugal, is there any way to work for Riot (specifically in the LoR team since that's my favorite Riot game) without moving to the US, while being an active member of the team and not just work in localization?

Leah: LoR development largely happens between our LA and Hong Kong offices. There are other offices where other development happens though. The best way is to check the careers page and see what listings are available for the office you're interested in.

Milk first or cereal first?

Whisper: Cereal first. ARE THERE PEOPLE THAT DO MILK FIRST?

If you had a truck what would you put in it ?

Leah: A smaller truck, of course.

I would like to ask , what is your current view on the success of LoR so far? Has the number of players met your initial expectations or do you feel like there is still an unused potential to lure in new players? As a relatively new player myself who loves the game to death, I feel like so far it hasn't got the attention it deserves so I'd love to know what's the perspective of you as Rioters on the matter.

Dovagedys: We are extremely proud of how many players have been enjoying LOR! We believe this is only the beginning and we hope to see more and more players joining the community over time.

Will there ever be a way to listen to the music of the boards before we buy them?

DanCast: Someday, yes I hope so. We have a lot of things we want to build and limited resources so we have to choose our projects with a lot of consideration. Since a lot of fans and creators preview content on video sites, we focus our efforts on more gameplay experiences for players.

What are your plans when a year from now comes and there are too many cards to balance? Will we have a similar thing to Hearthstone where sets from awhile ago will be unplayable in ranked?

Dovagedys: We want players to always be able to play with their favorite cards. We hope that our model for live balance will help players enjoy the cards they love. And we want to avoid situations where players aren't able to include the cards they love in their decks.

What's the funniest moment of friendly competition/bet/dare/general tomfoolery you've seen your colleagues in Riot do for fun during break-time?

DanCast: @Dovagedys still owes his team a rendition of a Taylor Swift song
Dovagedys: yikes @DanCast
Leah: We play a lot of games together on breaks and such. I had a friend try to meme me in a game of LoR by vile-feasting my unit that he was going to kill anyways. Unfortunately that unit was Scarmother Vrynna and the extra damage won me the game he would've won. I still tease him about it.

@Dovagedys I'm sorry, but I have to know the story behind you owing your team a TaySwift song.

Dovagedys: Honestly, it's a troll perpetrated by some devious people on my team. Once upon a time I was a singer. I'm also a gigantic Taylor Swift fan and I frequently utilize her songs, lyrics, images, and quotes in team communications. I don't really know/remember how the joke of me "owing the team" began.

At one point someone from the team said that they would look into more options for making the data about viable decks that you all see open to the public. Any updates on that? It's cool to know that there are regularly 20-30 viable competitive decks, but it's hard to see past the data that fansites offer so we the players only have ever a limited amount of insight into what's actually working for people.

Dovagedys: We do still plan on sharing more information around the meta, but we don't have an exact date yet.

What was the biggest emergent gameplay from the community that the team didnt foresee?

DanCast: Hello There was too strong of an emote to include in the starting 6

Lore question: In League, the only Yordle that has a tail is Gnar, and that makes sense due to him being ancient. But in LoR, we have Fae Bladetwirler, a Yordle that doesn't just have one tail, but multiple tails. Are tails on yordles a somewhat common thing nowadays or is it some rare special thing. Also are there any other tailed Yordles I should be aware of in the game already?

Dovagedys: Keep in mind that League only showcases the champions in Runeterra. Gnar is the only yordle champion with a tail, but there are so many yordles that exist in the world of Runeterra that are not champions and many of them have tails.

Finally, could we possibly have some place in the deckbuilder where we could see the card art and flavor text for everything else we can't maindeck? I wanna look at many celestial cards for description or lore reasons and I am never able to.

Dovagedys: As of Call of the Mountain there is a new filter option in the deck builder that will allow you to see the Celestial cards.

Though LoR has a slowly but surely growing competitive scene (e.g. DoR and serverwide tournaments), are there any plans to eventually have our counterpart to League's Worlds with splits and invitationals and everything?

Dovagedys: We hope to have esports some day, but right now we have been very focused on making the game as fun as possible. We are focused on listening and learning to the community to be sure we are making the right improvements.
We do hope to have in client tournaments and then eventually esports some day, but right now we don't have a specific date for them.

I would like to know how you would like to lead new players to the game, and if you are thinking of creating an official deck creation system on the LOR website, and if there will be a community deck system like on mobalitcks.

DanCast: Thank you for the thoughtful question. It's a problem space we think about, and we know deck creation is a challenging aspect for many players. Deck Bundles were one idea to give players something new they could use early. We don't want to repeat the work of our partners at Mobalytics, but we are thinking about ways to make it easier to bring friends into LoR.

Since the new patch i've had issue's with SOL'S level up. So when I ahve 20+ power and round ends Sol sometimes just will not level up at all, this has happned in a few of my games were i have had a board 20+ power and he would not level up, any plans to look into this bug?

Leah: I can't speak to the specifics of this bug. But as a neat tidbit about bugs in general: For all bugs they will go through some triage process, including being verified by QA for a consistent repro, heading to production where they decide how impactful the bug is, and finally through engineering where we will of course attempt to fix it. There's a bunch of steps that go in the finding and fixing bugs that makes it a fun process.

Do you have plans to bring PVE game modes? Perhaps an event where there is a boss with a gigantic life, of which the community will have to strive to defeat and win prizes.

Dovagedys: Personally, I would love it if we were able to eventually add some PVE and/or story game modes to LOR. It's something we talk about and hope that we can do at some point, but right now we don't have any specific release date for a PVE mode.

If you had a poro in real life, what would you name it?

Dovagedys: Snack

How did you deal with the constructive criticism that most card game fans gave to you from the start of when the game was released? Ccg fans like hearthstone or MTG had made their opinions on your game, so I wonder what your opinions are on such criticism that you've been receiving the past few months

Whisper: Constructive criticism is crucial for us to grow and improve the game. We always knew that initial impressions especially from CCG fans were going to be heavily rooted in other games, and that's a totally reasonable starting point. The hope is that as they play and learn more about LoR they're able to see the strengths of what makes the game great.
DanCast: One of the areas where LoR's first impression isn't as great is in our rewards (say for Ranked or Gauntlets). In other CCGs, competitive game modes often reward cards. In games where high rarity cards are very hard to get, those rewards look very valuable.
So if you just compared rewards like icons or XP to card packs or rare cards, it looks like our rewards aren't motivating. Our philosophy on more accessible cards makes it more challenging to come up with rewards here, and it may take a new player time to see how quickly their collection can grow through the roads and vault to appreciate that difference. We're working on future things we can use as rewards to help with this.

A sandbox mode would be incredibly useful to help teach new players and give new scenarios for "puzzle" challenges and the like. Is there any technical limitation that makes this mode impossible to make? Or is this entirely impossible?

Leah: There is some technical implications to this unfortunately. As far as "puzzles" such as tutorials go, I know they can take some scripting that is special circumstance, which makes it a large time investment.
As far as a sandbox mode goes, there's a few things: exposing the right cheats on non-internal builds, the impact of having potentially infinitely long game times, or what to do about crashes as people try to do things that wouldn't happen in a normal game. We'd also have to contemplate how we load cards into the game at random (Do we need to check against your inventory, are we unloading cards no longer in use appropriately, is this impacting your game performance, etc). So not something I would say is impossible, but would take a decent time investment.

Which poro is your favorite?

Dovagedys: Nimble Poro. She's totally awesome. Also during development Steve Rubin (Live Balance Design Lead) wrote a short song about Nimble Poro and I will never forget it.

Love you Riot (?) <--- Question :uwuHeart:

Leah: Oh my, uhm, thank you

Do you think Quinn is acheiving her themeatic fantasy right now? Regardless of power level, do you think she feels 'cool' as a champion?

Dovagedys: I think so. I love Quinn and I'm really happy with her design in LOR. Her level up is one of my favorites.

how much do you take expeditions into account when designing a card (and especially assigning rarity)

Whisper: They are a soft consideration when it comes to initial design of a card. We usually do a larger pass with Expeditions once we know the general shape of the archetype. Rarity is part of that pass, given rarity helps influence appearance rate.

What's your favorite thing about the player base of LoR? Least favorite? spill the tea

DanCast:

Favorite: The dedication to creating a lively, welcoming, and meaningful community space for fans of the game and helping it grow.
Second favorite: The love for Spirit Blossom Corina and recognizing her from the promo art
Least Favorite: I don't know about some of your emote meta hot takes...

Whisper:

Fave: Y'alls meme game is off the charts and I love it
Least: Not enough love and support for the best bot, Slotbot

Dovagedys:

My favorite thing is the overwhelming positivity of the LOR community. I have been playing games on the internet for a very long time and I have never seen so much positivity in a game community before. It's astounding to me. I am very humbled by and proud of the community we are all building for LOR.
My least favorite aspect is the hyperbolic language the community sometimes uses when talking about the metagame, segregating decks that have 52% win rate as playble or S tier and decks that have 50% win rate as tier 2, 3, or even unplayable. I think that language and thought pattern leads to the erroneous idea that there are a small number of decks in the LOR metagame. When the reality is that there are 20-35 decks that all have win rates between 47% and 53%.(edited)

Knowing that in today's time there is a pandemic in the world, how did you deal working from home into developing the game as time passes by?

Leah: The pandemic is definitely a hard thing to deal with. I feel pretty lucky myself that Riot does it's best to take care of us during this time. Since I'm at a computer all day for my job, I try to take some time after work (or sometimes during, shh) to take a walk or rest if I need to.
Also making sure to stay hydrated, get plenty of rest, do some cool new hobbies, and talk with people when I'm feeling down! Gotta keep up that strong mental energy.

can we please get an article on how the spell mana system came to be? (and more design articles in general pls) (and less broad pls, the champions article only had like 2 sentences per champion)

Whisper: That is a great question! No immediate promises, but one thing I personally want to do more is write more design articles for y'all. Knowing what parts of design you want to hear about helps a ton.

Was there ever a specific champion that you loved to main and play as in League of Legends that you wished was in LoR?

Whisper: I keep trying to sneak in Twitch, but the other designers keep too many traps down
submitted by Imhotep0 to LegendsOfRuneterra [link] [comments]

Turned a straight flush, feels like I loss out on Value, wondering about the line I took.

Playing in the home game online game, .10/.20 blinds. Effective stack 19 dollars for the hero. Hero in the big blind. Villian is on the button, he's an aggressive guy, normally when I have big hands the active will go bet 3 streets from him, and then a raise I make he will fold to. Likes to bluff, likes to bet his good hands, doesn't call off draws as much as he probably should, but will bet them
4 handed, UTG limps, V on the button makes it .60. SB folds.
Hero has KJcc, potentially 3 bet, but I make the call. UTG calls.
Flop is a dream 9cTc7h pot 1.90.
So double gutter, 2nd nut flush draw, and 1 out to the nut straight flush and two overs.
If I were the preflop better, I would be betting this, but I have the aggro on the button, I check. UTG checks, villain bets 1.20, I know the villian, if he had a hand or straight air, he would bet larger. So he has something he wants called on, but it's not a nutted hand.
I feel like maybe a check raise should had been done here, realistically, I'm never folding if he jams, I have 8 outs for a straight, 9 to a flush, and two overs for potentially 6 more outs if he's playing AT. So half the deck will improve my hand
But UTG is a calling station, and I feel like I'm good verse both of them, so I call, but UTG folds
Pot 4.30, and the turn is the QC.
I don't see how I would ever lead out on the turn against an aggro player with a un counterfeitable nut hand. So I check...and he checks back.
The river is a pretty good card I think, another ten.
I'm not sure I would want a better card, maybe a jack? Or another club? It's one of the better cards we could hope for at least....
So what's heros line here? He's an aggro player, but he checked the turn, he probably thinks I'm trapping, but he also might think I'm on a draw, or I might be scared of a T(basically he should check back every hand that doesn't have a T, even aces or kings, since he will never get called by worst, but he might bluff)
If I overbet he might fold with say aces, kings, Jack's, if he's slow playing a big hand, I expect he will jam.....
So I elect for thin value, half pot, which should get me called by a lot of hands, I bet half pot, he calls pretty quickly and doesn't show his hand.
Unfortunately given the normal action at the table, we didn't get a lot of money out of this one.
Any different play that would result in a better out come? 3bet pre definitely possible, but we aren't calling a large 4bet, check raise flop? Definitely not leading the turn, but if someone wants to correct me there, against an aggro player, please do, or check the river?
submitted by Sorge74 to poker [link] [comments]

Called with T high? How is this possible unless he can see hole cards

Online game. 6 handed, I am in cutoff. Folds to me with 7c6s, I raise to 3x BB. Small blind calls.
Flop 9h2d4d
Check, check
Turn Jc
SB checks, I bet 2/3 pot, SB calls
River 3d
SB checks, I bet 3/4 pot, SB calls
SB shows Th5c for T high and takes it.
How the hell does that happen without him knowing hole cards.
submitted by greydawg00 to poker [link] [comments]

Hero Calling with Top Pair for a 2000+ BB pot

Game: 0.5/1 USD, Online Home Game, EXTREMELY DEEP
Players: The two villains involved in this hand are both winning regs with very respectable graphs, they used to play 2/5 live pre-corona.
Reads: Villain A-On the nittier side, doesn't get out of line too often has a strong understanding of ranges. Villain B-LAG, very aggressive likes to float and apply maximum pressure whenever possible.
Hand:
Hero is the smallest stack with ~950USD
Villain A and Villain B both have around ~1300-1500USD
UTG straddles
HJ-Villain B opens to $8
Hero is dealt AhQh in the Button and decides to flat (Given how aggressive Villain B is I would have normally put in a 3bet here, but decided to balance my button flat range)
SB-Villain A 3bets to $40
HJ-Villain B flat calls the $40
Button-Hero flats the $40 (Decided to flat AhQh here because Villain A doesn't get too out of line so his SB 3betting range should be fairly tight, also it would be very weird if I flat called a raise and then put in a 4bet)
FLOP: Pot ~$120
Qd 7s 3d
SB-Villain A continues for $67
HJ-Villain B flats the $67
Button- Hero flats the $67 (Hero I was considering raising, but again Villain A has a solid 3betting SB range and by betting into two opponents he is representing a very strong hand like QQ, KK, AA , albeit I block some of those, furthermore I was a bit worried about Villain B's flat.)
TURN: Pot ~$320
Qd 7s 3d 4c
SB-Villain A checks
HJ- Villain B bets $217
Button-Hero calls $217
SB-Villain A calls $217
(Here when Villain A checks, I was feeling more comfortable that I was ahead of him, however, when Villain B leads I was pretty stumped but then decided to call as AQ is at the top of my button flatting range, 77 and 33 are the only better hands I have here. However, I'm fairly concerned Villain B could have those sets as well. All in all with the flush draw out there and potential combo draws mixed with me being at the top of my range I decided to flat. When Villain A overcalls the bet I'm thinking this hand went from tough to one of the sketchiest I've ever played)
RIVER: Pot ~$940
Qd 7s 3d 4c 7h
SB Villain A- Checks
HJ Villain B- bets $550
Hero calls
Villain A- folds
POT: ~2000+!
I thought when the 7 came that was fairly good since that reduces his combos of 77, after a lot of tanking I decided that even if Villain A had AA or KK he could not call this bet after I called, so I wouldn't have to worry about him (QQ definitely raises turn or continues barreling turn).

Thoughts? This is the definitely the weirdest hand I've played in a while and I don't know if I severely misplayed my hand or not.
Thank you for your time!
submitted by GokuEn2523 to poker [link] [comments]

Looking for microstakes sites in maryland

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? SB betting? BetOnline?
submitted by jgav10 to poker [link] [comments]

[Online Poker] The Biggest Loser of All Time at the Lowest Online Stakes, a Story of Struggle

Link to my online poker HobbyDrama posts: Poker player steals $1m+ chips and tries to sell it on 2+2 poker forums
A Very Controversial $70k prop bet
Poker Forum Help Homeless Player Attempt The Shot of a Lifetime

The Blossoming of TV Poker

The Year is 2006. Online poker is thriving. Partypoker has the highest traffic of any poker site but Pokerstars are gaining new players quickly with aggressive marketing strategies. Lots of poker sites are investing heavily into marketing and one key place to channel their advertising budget is TV. New innovations, improved graphics and increasing funding meant that poker TV is at an all-time peak of popularity.
The World Series of Poker (WSOP) is the biggest event in the poker calendar, it features many poker tournaments culminating in the prestigious $10k Main Event tournament. The Main Event is a popular televised tournament. 40% of the the 2006 WSOP Main Event’s attendance is from online sites and poker sites are offering large amounts of cash for players on TV to wear an advertising patch. According to Dan Goldman’s blog, Pokerstars spent over $730,000 on WSOP players’ gift bags. The WSOP is seeing more TV time and this year an extra event is added to the TV schedule alongside the WSOP main event.

The Path of a New Player

In Finland, Mikael Paisting is watching the 2006 WSOP on TV. He enjoys watching poker broadcasts and is fascinated by the game. It’s a very common story for players to catch an interest by watching poker TV and sign up with to one of the many poker sites available. He chooses to deposit on Partypoker. Mikael is a committed learner and player. He reads several poker books from well-known authors. He also watches many training videos. Like many players starting in online poker he begins at the microstakes cash tables.
The standard buy in for microstakes online is $2-10, if a player plays microstakes for an hour they would probably win or lose a few dollars. 2nl means the big blind is 2 cents and standard buy in is $2, the standard buy in at 5nl is $5 and 10nl is $10.
Microstakes are a rite of passage for many online poker players. Some will play microstakes for weeks, months or even years improving their game and increasing their bankroll so they can move up to small stakes, 25nl and above. Some players see the microstakes as a job and play as many tables as they can to eke out a living wage. Some players have never played microstakes and skip it entirely for higher stakes. Mikael starts to play and doesn’t do well, this is normal for many beginners, even those who study. However, over the next few weeks Mikael continues to lose. Months go by and Mikael still hasn’t turned a profit. He discovers problems with tilt (when players get angry and it negatively affects their play) and often takes his frustration out in the chat box. An example of his rage:
Paisting:THAT IS NOT NORMAL OMG!! JUST UNBELIEVABLE
Mikael doesn’t play 10nl very often and spends the majority of him time playing 2nl and 5nl, buying in for $2-5 at a time. He continues to multitable cash games on Partypoker but he just can’t win. He starts to lose big, thousands of dollars, mostly at 2nl which is known as the softest cash game on the internet.

Getting Noticed

Mikael continues to play long sessions over the next five years, he claims to play 5-7 days a week for 4-8 hours a day. By 2011 he had played 2 and a half million hands while playing 6 to 9 cash tables at one time. Mikael is still mostly playing 2nl and is down a colossal amount: $7000. Remember that he is mostly playing 2nl, with a buy in of $2, even losing $1000 at 2nl is unheard of. Mikael has been suffering from major tilt problems and has a very wild and noticeable style of playing microstakes. He starts to get noticed on 2+2, a very popular poker forum. A player posts a link to his PTR graph, a site which tracks online cash games. They are shocked at his losses over so many hands:
yegor: wow such a massive fail
he played 2.5m hands at 2nl and 5nl and he's losing
Donkey111: I remember him from my 2NL days.
often goes on some massive tilt sessions and spews like 20 BI [buy ins] in 500 hands by shoving any 2 cards preflop.
He even gets hate from his PTR account where he is ridiculed on his profile comments, he also replies:
VELAir26: Spend your time with family, friends or other hobbies instead
Paisting: im fine with this you stupid idiot
Mikael continues to play his reckless and tilting style over the years. By 2014, he has been playing for 8 years and is down five figures at microstakes; he starts to look for excuses for how much he has lost. He posts a thread on 2+2 detailing how he feels that he wins at the start of the month and then inevitably starts to lose. He asks how he can take legal action against Partypoker. His fellow posters tease him:
5thStreethog: Did the thought ever cross your mind that it might be possible that the reason you cant beat NL2 in over a million hands might be because you arent very good at poker?

An Attempt at Redemption

2019 comes and Mikael Paisting has been playing microstakes for 13 years, and steadily losing a lot of money. He got a new computer in late 2018 and has been grinding away on it. Mikael is getting mentioned more on 2+2 and he is well known on the tables of Partypoker as he drops stack after stack. Many players on Partypoker furiously try to get on his tables to call his tilt shoves; when Mikael is present other player’s stacks can get as high as $100 at 2nl as he shoves buy in after buy in in bad spots. Some were said to be using seating scripts to instantly be placed on a table with Paisting. At this point he is feeling very low. But despite years of losing money and insane tilting he is determined to improve. Mikael is aware of his losses and has a fierce desire to make back the money he has lost since he’s started tracking on his new PC.
He decides get help and he looks to 2+2, the very same forum that had mocked him over the last decade. He logs in as Paisting, his last name. He starts a new thread, types out a post and chooses a title: 'Biggest loser in online poker history wants to grind $16k'. He posts this thread in the sub-forum Poker Goals & Challenges, a place where players post their goals and try to update their thread with their progress. He posts graphs of his losses from his database on his PC. He starts the thread by posting some shocking graphs of $8700 lost at 2nl, $6000 lost at 5nl and $800 lost at 10nl. At 2nl he had an incredible rate of losing an average of $75 a day. The final graph of his microstakes losses posted show $15,000 lost over 365,000 hands.
The 2+2 poker community are stunned by the graphs:
HorseofHell: I'm actually shocked it's possible to lose this much at 2nl
Mahsjdj: This can't be real can it?
Mikael posts about the hard work he’s put into poker and mentions that has watched videos, read many instructional books and is honest with his astounding losses:
Paisting: I've lost literally all my money including all my life savings to online poker. I want to try one last time to win those money back and little bit of extra. That's why $16k. What I need is support and guiding.
The community react to his plan to grind all the money back at microstakes:
Fodersneso: This is really disturbing.
Why on earth would you try to grind this all back? Losing at this rate is traumatizing. You're going to grind out 3000 BIs [buy ins] @nl5 now or what's the plan? Really curious how you think you can turn this pile of insanity around...
The community show disbelief and doubt that his story is real but several posters claim that what he says is true. He has been active in Finnish forums for more than 10 years and players starts to share hand histories and stories about his playstyle. He posts about his regret of picking the game up:
Paisting: Never had a winning week in 13 years.
If it were possible to go back ten years I would say to myself "Do not never play single one hand!"
He then goes on to tell 2+2 posters a disturbing source of his funds for his staggering 2nl losses:
Paisting: I've taken huge amount of fast loans.
He sheds a little light into his personal life:
Paisting: My age and relationships has nothing to do with this. But not working, no kids or wife and middle aged. What I have is time to play.
I get a little unemployment benefit that goes straight to the rent. My eating costs are very little because I'm only eating one meal per day. There are times when I must take more fast loans if need of clothes, unexpected bills, sickness etc. That's why getting back those $16k is so important to me.
No disability, never played anything else than poker or lottery when pots are bigger, maybe 5 times in year. Playing poker does not give me any excitement or I'm not cheering won pots.
Posters try to give him strategy advice, they try to persuade him time and time again that his strategy isn't working. Some others question his sanity and tell him to quit:
FazendeiroBH: Not trolling, I´m actually serious here. You lost an absurd amount of money playing the easiest stake in the world (nl2). You keep losing doing the same faulty strategy. It´s quite obvious there is something wrong with you and your brain, and the more you delay seeking professional care for your mental problems, the worst it´s gonna be for you.
Paitsing updates his thread with highlight hands from his cash sessions. He seems to cherry pick hands to post and will only post hands where he loses all ins as a 70-95% favourite. He delusion leads him to blame the site, his luck and the other micro grinders. He often writes about specific players and gives his opinion on how badly they play. Some time passes and he discloses that he has lost almost $500 at 2nl since starting the thread three weeks ago.
He updates his followers with the first monthly graph of the thread from his 2nl play in April 2019. He plays for 90 hours in April and his average daily loss is $50, 25 buyins each day. 2+2 players start to analyse the graph. They notice that there are several breakeven spots where he may be playing reasonable poker but also huge 150 buy in downswings, some drops in the graph are so steep that he is losing about a buy in every 5 hands for periods of hundreds of hands. He says:
Paitsing: Only trying to get my money back from guys who are playing nl2 forever and never moving up. When I started poker long time ago I tought it's exciting to read watch videos if it gives me more money. After 2 years figured out it's just sitting on computer like in work and if I'm someday +-0 never ever playing this stupid game. This is like war.
The thread goes on like this for almost a year. The thread repeats itself over and over. He will post a few selective bad beats, ignore good advice and berate his microstakes tablemates. A fellow microstakes grinder makes his first appearance in the thread: 6betpot. 6Betpot would play at Paisting's tables and often win many buy ins, 6Betpot would go on to post highly contrasting hand histories to the unlucky hands that Paisting posts which shows the hands Mikael was not posting. Some players would criticize 6Betpot for predatory behavior but 6Betpot would maintain that he would try to persuade Paisting to stop playing in a crazy manner.
Many tried to reason with Mikael and show him clearly why this was wrong, he not only refuted their strategy but would argue against them.
Later on in the thread Mikael posts horrifying news. He explains that he didn’t transfer hands from his old computer to his new computer. The graphs he posted at the start of the thread only showed the tip of the iceberg. He reveals that $16k loss from the graphs was from just 7 months of play!:
Paisting: That 16k is in 209 days and in about 1 year as you can see from the first post. Big part of my losings has left to hard drive of my old crashed computer. That's past and I don't wanna think about it anymore. Main goal is this database I have here in my computer. But yes what I have been repeating many times, moving to 888 poker has sky rocketed my losses although I can play only 6 tables compared to party's 9 tables.
Posters speculate that his lifetime microstakes losses probably amount to six figures:
SpinMeRightRound: I mean if he's lost $20k in the last year, and he's been doing this for more than 10 years, he may have lost $200k or more.

2020: The Struggle Continues

At the end of the year Paisting posts his 2019 graphs. He says that he hasn’t had a winning week yet and he’s still committed to making back 2019’s losses. His graphs show down 12k from 320k hands of 2nl in 2019.
In January 2020 he continues to post regularly and makes comments about him hunting down players worse than him:
Paisting: When you hunt really bad player (yes enzet there are plenty of worst player than me on 888 look those hand histories really carefully) hours and hours and wait good hand just to site let them to suck out it is affecting your game really badly.
He posts about his continuing struggle to win back the $16k:
Paisting: I have years dedicated for this project and anything back from that amount is winning to me. At this point it’s impossible to make any profit because of horrible suckouts.
He also posts about the high interest loans he’s taken out:
Paisting: I have huge amounts of loans that are basically all taken for poker. I don't eat much and all my other costs are very low.
And because of those loans I must get back so much money that is possible and these suck outs must stop.
February 2020 arrives and he posts his January chart, the worst posted yet. He takes a gigantic loss of $1,550 at an eye-watering rate.
The months pass and the cycle continues. Paisting posts the usual unlucky hands, posters berate him and try to give him advice and Paisting resists their efforts. Here is one of many similar hands posted in February, this hand shows him making an awful play and raising huge with a weak hand:
888Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
UTG: $1.46 (73 bb) Paisting (MP): $7.45 (373 bb) CO: $15.44 (772 bb) BU: $2.00 (100 bb) SB: $3.47 (174 bb) BB: $2.00 (100 bb)
Pre-Flop: ($0.03) 1 fold, Paisting(MP) raises to $7.45 (all-in), CO calls $7.45, 3 players fold
Flop: ($14.93) 6c 7c 4d (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: ($14.93) Ts (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: ($14.93) 8h (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: $14.93 (Rake: $0.93)
Showdown: Paisting (MP) shows 7d Tc (two pair, Tens and Sevens) (CO) shows Js Jc (a pair of Jacks) Paisting (MP) wins $14
March comes and the regular monthly graph is posted. The uploaded graph shows is he down $1900 or 950 buy ins for last month. Mikael refutes that he is a gambling addict:
Paisting: 888 has given many 10 dollar bonuses to me play slots. I have never played them and in fact my account has 20 dollars freeplay bonus to play their slots. I will not use those money now or in future. So that's gambling addict to you.
April and May roll by and the monthly graphs are posted. He played fewer hands than normal, 43,000. But is down $1,250, all at 2nl.
In June he posts the usual monthly graph with -$1900 and it’s the lowest win rate he’s posted before, the graph has some alarmingly steep downswings with one section where he loses $500 in 1000 hands. That’s a loss of one buy in every 4 hands. Getting these monthly updates shows how quickly he loses money at 2nl and collaborates with earlier estimations that he is likely down more than $100k at microstakes over the past 14 years.

The End, for Now

Mikael is still playing microstakes to this day. His poker story isn’t over yet but so far it is a sad one. My previous two Tales from 2+2 stories had mostly happy endings but not this one. This story is like a car falling down a cliff and it hasn’t hit the bottom yet.
Let this story be a lesson that poker isn’t for everyone. Players with addiction or mental issues should reconsider if the game is best for their lives. Serious poker players should consider bankroll management and how tilt affects their winrate if they do choose to play.
Seek help if you think you or others need it.
Original thread (Still active)
submitted by GiantHorse to HobbyDrama [link] [comments]

For those who know SaltyBet through FNF or Woolie

tl;dr Salty started deleting characters and people asked questions, those people got banned. People who asked further about what happened, they also got banned. This eventually devolved to the point where even randos get banned because ??? as seen in the album linked below. Salty's complete lack of communication with his community as well as all of this had made a lot of regulars dump their salt and leave SB entirely.
Following EVO Online's cancellation, Salty, the owner of SaltyBet started deleting characters from SaltyBet's MUGEN. It's not uncommon for characters to be removed from SaltyBet's MUGEN every now and then, as some characters can be inappropriate (like +18 edits that sneaked in, even though a simple sprite edit can fix that real quick.) or just downright crash MUGEN. However the deletion of characters this time were done without reason nor explanation, so a few members in the community stepped up to ask what was going on and what happened to the characters.
Those members were immediately slapped with permabans, basically telling us "You don't need to know why I did it, just live with it."
Following these members, questions about the permabans came up from other members in the community. Why were they banned? What happened? What's going on?
Anyone who asked these kind of questions were also promptly permabanned, a majority of them at least.
Anyone who even questioned the situation were likely permabanned as well. These bans also included members who bought the premium membership on the site.
People who were in the SaltyBet Discord (which needs you to be premium, btw) and wanted to know about what was going on also had their Discord chat history hidden, effectively silencing the conversation and making sure no one else knew about how badly Salty was treating his community.
In addition, once details about this ban spree leaked to the common community, newbies were trying to understand what had happened too. Because there were too many people to ban at once, Salty instead opted to silence the embed Twitch chat through a 1-week follower requirement. Everything he's done up to this point has just been to cut off any communication about the issue at hand.
Now, what does this matter to you guys? Bottom line, please consider carefully if you want to support SaltyBet. If you've ever heard about that site through the Best Friends and the few episodes they did, things have changed. Some aspects have gone completely downhill and a large number of Salty Bet's regulars have decided they've had enough and left the place altogether, which also led to their accounts being banned.
Salty has clearly lost any and all control over the situation and is using any means necessary to protect the reputation of the site so that more people can continue spending money on the premium membership while he does nothing to fix the issues he's caused.
Permaban Examples
If you're looking for an alternative to SaltyBet, try out SpriteClub. It's functionally the same with better management.
submitted by NekoSchrodinger to TwoBestFriendsPlay [link] [comments]

Hand Analysis 5NL Ignition


A little unsure here. Mostly looking for feedback on the bet sizing (thinking it was low on F and T now that I've reviewed the hand) and the shove. My read was that SB had Ax of some kind based on the turn donk bet.
Background on me: got back into online poker recently. Last I played was 5+ years ago, and it was pretty casual. Been doing about 75% playing, 25% studying. I've made it through most of the grinders manual and have a from the ground up subscription on RIO. So if there's something about my line that's totally off other than what I noted above, I'd love some feedback.
Dealt to Hero: Qc Qd

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $0.10, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.08, HERO Raises To $0.40, HJ Calls $0.30, SB Calls $0.30
SB ($17.34) [VPIP: 49% | PFR: 27.5% | AGG: 32.6% | Flop Agg: 30% | Turn Agg: 21.4% | River Agg: 55.6% | 3-Bet: 10% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 34.8% | Hands: 51]

Hero SPR on Flop: [6.8 effective]
Flop ($1.20): Qh 6h Jc
SB Checks, HERO Bets $0.57 (Rem. Stack: $7.59), HJ Folds, SB Calls $0.57 (Rem. Stack: $16.37)

Turn ($2.34): Qh 6h Jc Ad
SB Bets $1.12 (Rem. Stack: $15.25), HERO Calls $1.12 (Rem. Stack: $6.47)

River ($4.58): Qh 6h Jc Ad 2h
SB Bets $1.93 (Rem. Stack: $13.32), HERO Raises To $6.47 (allin), SB Calls $4.54 (Rem. Stack: $8.78)

SB shows: 9h Kh

SB wins: $16.65
submitted by d1rt_nasty to poker [link] [comments]

More Tales From 2+2: A Very Controversial $70k prop bet

I enjoyed writing up and seeing positive feedback from this post so I decided to write up about an interesting prop bet that came from the 2+2 poker forums that I feel went under the radar. It's way longer than I thought it would be but this story has it all: large amounts of money being bet, furious grinding, 25 buy in swings, community outrage and Doug Polk.

The Site

The modern cash game grinder may be surprised to hear that there used to be a Sharkscope style tracking website for online cash games, it was called PokerTableRatings or PTR. It tracked hands fairly accurately. Today, it doesn’t exist and has been shut down for years but it was a valuable resource for grinders and having one browser open to check out opponents was useful. PTR showed your graph and win rates at different stakes, it also had an achievement system. Some achievements were serious like ‘1 Million Dollars In Profit’ and some were less serious like ‘Check Raise 3 Times In A Hand’. One coveted achievement given by PTR was the ‘Ultimate Grinder’. This was given to the most profitable player each month at each stake, this was all tracked on the Ultimate Grinder Leaderboard. So for example: if you are the top of the leaderboard for 50NL in December 2008, you will receive the ‘Ultimate Grinder December 50nl 2008’ badge on your PTR profile.

The Bets

The year is 2010. Johnathon Duhamel has won the WSOP Main Event. Poker, especially online poker is still booming. The grinders are plentiful. The fish are more plentiful. Posts flow on 2+2 like wine.
Enter Silent_0ne. He puts out a proposition bet on BBV (Beats, Brags and Variance: a subforum of 2+2 which is the precursor to Poker’s weekly BBV thread). Back in the golden days of online poker and 2+2 it was common for large prop bets to be made on BBV. Silent_0ne’s prop bet is he will be the ultimate grinder for December 2010 at 100nl. No easy feat, the previous months' ultimate grinders had won between $12k-18k and Silent_0ne claimed to have never played more than 10 tables or ever played on Pokerstars. The odds were set at 6:1 odds in Silent’s_0ne’s favour. Jalexand42 was selected to be the escrow and judge of this prop bet, so he will be the middleman for the money and he will arbitrate any disputes. The rules were set down covered many different situations. The judge was confident of this:
Jalexand42: Just a quick note about the judging... I'm optimistic there won't be any controversy in this bet the way the rules have been defined. (#83)
He would turn out to be so wrong.
Many 2+2 posters weighed their opinions in and started to place bets:
Chicago Joey (Joey Ingram): damn that is going to be interesting for a bunch of reasons(#46)
Canoodles: If I was OP, I wouldn't take this for less than 100-1. (#18)
Chinz: Settling for 6-1 and doing it on December when lots of SNE chasers are playing really high volume... You don't seem to like money. (#218)
Nearly all the posters doubted Silent_0ne but he seemed confident and Jalexand42 started collecting money.
By the 28th November, with 3 days to go until the challenge begins the bets were placed and finalized, 14 people put up between $600-$3k. Silent_0ne stood to gain $67,500 or lose $11,250 from the bet alone. In just a few days he would put himself at the mercy of variance and would dedicate himself to destroying 100nl. If he overcomes this challenging month, he stood to win a significant amount of money.

The Play

December the first rolled in and Silent_0ne starting playing. It was a rocky start for him, he finished day two down more than $2k and received comments from 2+2 posters like:
ChicagoJoey [Joey Ingram]: lol trainwreck (#392)
MinSixBet: are you still taking action? (#399)
But some posters really believed in him and were rooting hard:
Eaglesfan1: Forget about the leaderboard and focus on your game and playing ur best. (#406)
However things got worse and Silent_one seemed to be losing hope, on day 4 he posted this:
Silent_0ne: just got owned
bad rly bad "hero call" for big pot
set of 8s < set of As
KK < AK
bad river bluff shove
set of 6s < str
10s < Js
AK < AA
AK on AK6 board < 66
AA < 99 on 974 board
^ all greater than 200 big blind pots
could have prevented half of those if I didnt suck so much (#410)
Day 5 and Silent_0ne was doing better but was down a few buy ins, still far behind his target. Remember, he needs to be number one in profit in the massive 2010 pool of 100nl Pokerstars players. He posted this astonishing hand:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Silent_0ne: $568.55 UTG+1: $444.30 UTG+2: $519.10 MP1: $226.75 Hero (MP2): $257.70 CO: $250.00 BTN: $100.00 SB: $257.70 BB: $120.90
Pre Flop: ($3.30) Silent_0ne is MP2 with 9h9c
Silent_0ne raises to $4.80, UTG+1 raises to $18.60, 1 fold, MP1 calls $18.60, 5 folds, Silent_0ne calls $13.80
Flop: ($59.10) 2h8s5s(3 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 bets $32, MP1 folds, Silent_0ne raises to $92, UTG+1 calls $60
Turn: ($243.10) Kc (2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, UTG+1 checks
River: ($243.10) 4s (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $127, UTG+1 raises to $333.50 all in, Silent_0ne calls $206.50
Final Pot: $910.10
Silent_0ne shows 9h9c (a pair of Nines)
UTG+1 shows 9dJc (high card King)
Silent_0ne wins $907.10
As you can see, 2010 was truly an amazing place for online poker.
Silent_0ne was bringing out his inner grinder and was playing 16 hour sessions and seeing huge swings in the first week. Day 7 and he posted some hands that shocked the community and his growing fan base:
DPred123: wtf at those HHs. (#520)
Transa: LoLolLololooLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL (#521)
Here are two of the hands he posted:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 9 players
Pre Flop: ($3.30) MP1: $365.20 Hero (CO): $342.35 Silent_0ne is CO with 7s7d
3 folds, MP1 raises to $4, 1 fold, Silent_0ne raises to $15.50, 3 folds, MP1 raises to $41.90, Silent_0ne raises to $342.15 all in, MP1 calls $300.25
Flop: ($687.60) ThKc6s(2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn: ($687.60) Ts (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($687.60) 2h (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $687.60
MP1 shows AcAh (two pair, Aces and Tens)
and:
Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em $0.20 Ante - 3 players
BTN: $656.85 Silent_0ne(SB): $288.00 BB: $345.00
Pre Flop: ($2.10) Silent_0ne is SB with 4d4h
BTN raises to $3, Silent_0ne raises to $12, 1 fold, BTN calls $9
Flop: ($25.60) 3h6d5s(2 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BTN bets $18, Silent_0ne raises to $275.80 all in, BTN calls $257.80
Turn: ($577.20) Js (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($577.20) 9c (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: $577.20
BTN shows 3d5d (two pair, Fives and Threes)
Hero Silent_0ne 4h4h (a pair of Fours)
BTN wins $576.20
Silent_0ne explained:
Silent_0ne: barely ate anything last few days. i just get up and play, dont prepare anything. im playing right now btw. down around 2700$ for the month. im really dumb for spewing off 3k+ just cause i was tilted/ran bad, and snapped. another problem that people overlook is the extra attention i get at the tables for doing this prop bet. lots of regs can exploit my plays and then all tend to focus on owning me. (#554)
Silent_0ne had started the month on a $3k downswing, then won $2.5k before going on another $3k downswing in just one week. He must have felt desperate as after an hour and a half Silent_0ne had an idea and events took a shocking turn:
Silent_0ne: any interested if i give up 100nl and start tomorrow on day 7 at 50nl to try and get the badge there for 6 to 1. i wanna gamble and break even on the month, so im willing to put up 5k on this if any1 is interested? (#570)
This new bet must have seemed too good to be true. At this point he had been relentlessly grinding 100nl for a week, was losing badly, he was tilting, was likely playing more tables than he can handle and he’s a week behind getting to the top of the 50nl leaderboard. The bets started to pour in and within an hour he had 7 people place action. The community commented:
Absurd: This is adsurd (#601)
jalexand42: Seriously, take a day to cool off. (#599)
King Fish: I'd be interested but highly advise you to reconsider this and maybe take an hour and step back. Edit: will take $1800 to your $300 assuming same judge and escrow. (#574)
loK2thabrain: I call dibs on first bet when he moves down to win the 25nl badge. (#700)
Everyone on the thread couldn’t believe what they reading, However, Silent_0ne seemed to accept that the 100nl bet was dead and he wasn’t getting the $67k prop bet win. He was willing to pay the $11k out and enter a new prop bet. Now, being the Ultimate Grinder at 50nl is his goal. Again, the bets were substantial and he had 8:1 odds in his favour for being the Ultimate Grinder for December at 50nl. The same day he made the new bet, he started at 50nl and was off.

The New Bet

Enter Fees. Fees is the 2+2 username of Ryan Fee (Currently on Team Upswing), at this point he was known for being a fearsome 2000nl grinder and writing Ryan Fee’s 6 max guide, which he distributed for free. In a world where succinct and good poker strategy was hard to come by, this was a valuable guide for many players. He takes interest in the thread on the 7th of December:
Fees i'll take all the action, PM me (#746)
Fees booked action late and the details of this booking were not listed in the thread. The next day, Fees acts a question about the rules:
Fees: what if kerpowski or jeffmet wins the ugl and he gets second? (#878)
Kerpowski and Jeffmet are players who took action against Silent_0ne. They are also 50/100nl grinders. The case of fellow grinders taking action was covered in the rules. A poster quotes the rules and informs Fees that they have to be existing 50nl/100nl grinders. Fees then asks the following question:
Fees: i think that implies at the same tables as him, but what if they just play completely different games and just win the ugl?
Remember these probing questions, they’ll become relevant later.
By the 10th of December things looked tough for Silent_0ne, the player of the top of the 50nl leaderboard was already at $2.5k profit (50 buy ins). Silent_0ne was up $1.1k and estimated he was only 2-3 days behind pace. By the 12th of December he was still playing brutally long sessions:
Silent_0ne: just finished 11 hour session, too tired to post anything, ill go to bed for a couple hours then post graphs/hands when i wake up. was tilted throughout entire session, played 12k hands...eyes burn...ran bad for once (6 buyins below ev)
He also posted eight hands that looked pretty spewy, here is one of them:
Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em $0.10 Ante - 5 players BB: $50.00 UTG: $103.40 CO: $137.65 BTN: $133.00 Silent_0ne (SB): $144.60
Pre Flop: ($1.25) Hero is SB with AdQh
1 fold, CO raises to $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, Silent_0ne calls $1.25, BB calls $1
Flop: ($6.50) 6c6d6s(4 players)
Silent_0ne checks, BB checks, CO bets $4, BTN folds, Silent_0ne raises to $14.75, BB folds, CO calls $10.75
Turn: ($36.00) 8h (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $25.75, CO calls $25.75
River: ($87.50) 4d (2 players)
Silent_0ne bets $102.50 all in, CO calls $95.55 all in
Final Pot: $278.60
CO shows JdJc (a full house, Sixes full of Jacks)
Silent_0ne shows AdQh (three of a kind, Sixes)
CO wins $276.60
Even people taking action against him gave him advice:
King Fish: I am speechless … It's NL50. Stop trying to get so fancy. (#1038)
But then, Silent_0ne has an explosive session and is up an incredible $2800 in one day, that’s 56 buy ins! The posters go wild as he moves into 3rd place on the 50nl Ultimate Grinder leaderboard:
  1. vaike $3,142, 19.38 Hands BB/100
  2. zzn1980 $2,833, 2.46 Hands BB/100
  3. Silent_0ne69 $2,634, 5.19 Hands B/100
For the first time people are starting to believe that he can do this.
Fast forward to the next day, December 13th and with another miraculous winning session he reaches number one on the leaderboard. He has $3.4k profit at 50nl and number two is close behind with $3.1k, if he can maintain his win rate of 6b/100 hands then he should have a very real chance of making an incredible comeback.
14th December. Fees posts:
Fees: still taking action, I want 2:1
Despite Silent_0ne being top of the leaderboard when he posted this and Fees already buying action Fees seemed willing to take 2:1 in Silent_0ne’s favour.
Soon after, a poster in the thread reveals that:
tightmaniac: fees is 4th
It is revealed that Fees who is normally a 2000nl player is playing 50nl HU and is 4th on the leaderboard. HU 50nl still counts towards the 50nl leaderboard. With the higher rate of hands of HU, bigger winrates of HU and Fees' skill, it could mean he would soon reach the top of the leaderboard. 10 minutes after TightManic’s post Fees lowers his odds:
Fees: Looking to take action on this at 1:1 (#1180)
The judge weighs in:
Jalexand42: If fees' didn't disclose this to whoever has his action, it's obviously pretty questionable, although that probably should have been asked. As far as the prop bet tho, I specifically asked Silent whether HU players should be included/excluded and he said included. The rules clearly don't exclude some random player from dropping down and playing $50nl (or $100nl for the original bet). They DO clearly state that people who bet against Silent one as part of the prop bet are NOT allowed to interfere with the bet, but I don't have anything to do with whatever side action fees may have on this. I told kerpowski last night that I didn't want him to play HU to try to win the badge, since I felt like it was a gray area in the intent of the rules (since he obviously doesn't normally play those stakes).
Kind of sucks for OP if this is going on, but I can't really change the rules after it's started since that would affect the people that bet against Silent. (#1196)
As of the 15 December Silent_0ne was still top of the board with $4.4k and most posters were expressing their displeasure if Fees were to continue playing 50nl. Silent_0ne drops this bombshell:
Silent_0ne: ‘2. Actions must be in accordance with the intent of having a fair prop bet. No actions (chip dumping, collusion, ghosting/coaching players on Silent_0ne's tables, etc) can be taken with the intent to affect the outcome of the prop bet. Violations will result in the violator's action being forfeited and may result in additional modification/extention to neutralize the interference.’ [Silent_0ne is quoting the rules here.] ‘The spirit of the bet is that OP is competing against players who 'really' play NL100, both ring and heads up.’
I know a friend of Fees and his friend said he was legit and everything. alittle after the bet started and action was full, fees approached me and my friend about taking additional action at 10 to 1. my friend and I took an additional 2.5k to his 25k and escrowed to wcgrider. the bet was under the assumption that the same rules as the 100nl bet were going to be used, and whatever the judge decides would be final.
so given the quotes above, it is against the rules that someone betting against me should also be able to compete against me given that he does not regularly play at 50nl (he plays 6max 2knl and WON the UGL badge last month at that stake) also, im not allowed to play 50nl HU which is really fishy and easy to win the UGL badge at if you put in enough volume.
regardless of if fees action is with Jalex or not, i think the same rules apply, because he is not a regular at the stakes and he accepted the same rules when making the bet with my friend and I going to eat something then start up a grind session, hopefully I continue to crush and run good, though my heart has sunk when I looked at fees in forth, and I feel ill and tilted (#1205)
Silent_0ne posted that he did a deal, off with main thread with 10 to 1 odds (Fees betting $25k to Silent_0ne’s $2.5k that Silent_0ne will win ultimate grinder 50nl) with Fees and that WCGRider (Doug Polk, currently of Upswing Poker and poker Youtube fame) is the escrow, not Jalexand42. Most posters now seem outraged:
King Fish: Wow what an angle shoot by Fees on this. This does help define the measure of what type of person he is that he is even attempting it. (#1207)
Tumaterminator: sickest hustle ever. (#1210)
kp1022: wait, doeboyfre$h is fees?
he sat me in 50nl HU a few days ago FWIW
after PTR'ing him , i asked why was he playing so low? he replied, "busto" (#1234)
Some of the posters were trying to play Fees at the 50nl in attempt to slow down his winning streak and tell Fees that he is breaking the rules. Silent_0ne expressed his displeasure and downed mental state:
Silent_0ne: this is horrible. im going to start my first grind right now. imo what fees is doing is against the rules and is unfair. i really hope i dont lose alot right now, but im in a pretty poor emotional state
please whoever is decent, sit it up with fees and discouarge him to continue what hes doing. 2knl player won badge last month, makes big bet against me and decides to compete for 50nl badge against me... (#1267)
For the first time in a few days Fees posts:
Fees: Hey,
Just to clear a few things up,
  1. I haven't broken any rules, there isn't a rule that explicitly states that I cannot win the UGL.
  2. I'm not trying to scam/do anything shady/etc, when I made the bet I posted in this thread asking if a bettor could win the UGL […] anyway I'm going to try and win the 50nl UGL this month... I haven't done anything wrong and there is nothing wrong with me going for it.
Then, an enflamed debate about the rules erupts, almost every poster is furious at Fees
Silent_0ne: had a conversation with WCGRider over the phone. the assumption was that jalex is the judge of this bet, and his word is final. WCGRider is simply just an escrow. fees and I agreed on the rules of the bet and having jalex of the judge. #1352
Then WCGRider (Doug Polk) posts for the first time:
WCGRider: Wanted to make a quick post here because i talked to colin earlier about this and i want to clear up a few things.
First off, I was never told i was going to be an escrow. I literally woke up with colins [Silent_0ne] money in my account. I was never asked anything, I was never told anything, I just was sent the money and thats it.
So now im being brought into this to make a decision, which i dont think really is fair. I haven't read any of this thread, I haven't read the rules. Also, fees has to be one of my best friends here in las vegas, and I want that to be clear before i give my opinion about this. I think its sort of unfair that i get put into this situation.
jalexand42 then posts his judgment in a lengthy post (#1526) but I believe this excerpt sums it up:
jalexand42: So, while it is not UNFAIR of fees to be playing $50nl, he has CLEARLY taken actions that will influence the outcome of the bet IF he wins the UGL for $50nl for December. Fees would clearly NOT be playing $50nl (and in fact is still playing his normal stakes) if he didn't have action on this bet. Fees also clearly understood this was a questionable area with regard to the rules based on his posts in this thread and he did not clarify it with the judge. He posts also indicate clearly that he felt he was subject to the rules. Therefore, I rule that Fees' standing on the UGL for December WILL BE IGNORED for purposes of determining this bet if he wins.
Many posters praise Jalexand42. But Jalexand42 does not have the money from the sidebet between Silent_0ne and Fees. WCGrider does. Silent_0ne gives his piece of mind and a quick poker update:
Silent_0ne: yes, i agree with this [Jalexand42's judgment].
also, fees can keep the 25k in the bet without any forfiet. im just really happy things worked out okay.
however i probably should have read this before my session I just played. probably wouldnt have spewed as much at the endodays been my worst day since the start of the 50nl bet so far. gonna play 1 more session later tonight and going to be in alot better and focused mood (#1561)
Then, another bombshell drops, a friend of WCRrider’s reveals that Fees didn’t even escrow his money to Doug:
theskillzdatklls: Afaik, Fees did not ship his $25k share to Doug, only Colin [Silent_0ne] sent his part. (#1669)
2+2 reacts:
Handbaggio: LOL wtf, fees hasn't escrowed his bet??? (#1676)
rnb0sprnkles: LOL and when I thought the drama was starting to die down, the thread gets even crazier (#1698)
Jalexand42 has a conversation with WCGRider to reach an agreement and reports:
Jalexand42: Okay, so here's the summary of my conversation with WCGRider:
  1. He is only holding Silent & the_most's action, $2,500.
  2. He did talk to Fees. Fees told him he was going to talk to Colin [Silent_0ne] today and 'hopes to work out something reasonable'.
  3. I asked what that means, he said he didn't feel like he could tell me, because he felt like what Fees told him was as a friend, but that it sounded fair in WCGRider's opinion.
  4. WCGRider said he thought my decision making sounded reasonable.
  5. WCGrider said that noone told him what to do, so he figured he was just holding on to Silent's money.
  6. I told WCGrider I was willing for him to ship me the $2.5k now if he was feeling uncomfortable, he said he'd wait to see what Silent & Fees work out. ( #1703)
Back to actual poker and Silent_0ne reports a bad losing session on the 16th December citing all the ongoing drama:
Silent_0ne: 22 buyin downswing im playing really bad right now, and I really wish I didn't have to think about and deal with all these other problems.
The community are rooting really hard to him at this point and are all telling him to stay strong. Things start to get messy when Jalexand42 speaks with WCGRider and Fees and in a long post ( #1957) said that WCGRider protested his participation was unfair and Jalexand42 accused him of not of not already sending the $25k to Jalexand42. Fees also tried to offer Silent_0ne a $1k buy out saying it was ‘super generous’, it was refused. Silent_0ne states that the reason fees doesn't want his money escrowed by Jalexand42 is that he is afraid that his bet will be forfeited due to breaking the rules. WCGRider chimed in to defend himself (he also spoke about playing 50nl-100nl and having a rough year, which is interesting as he developed into the top HU player for a time and couldn’t get action, even at the highest stakes.) The 2+2 community then debate and lightly harass WCGRider and Fees to concede and send the money to Jalexand42. Fees finally agrees to a 50% buyout.

The Outcome

On the 17th of December and Silent_0ne slips to number 2 on the leaderboards.
  1. vaike $3,835 ,17.44BB/100
  2. Silent_0ne69 $3,523, 4.25BB/100
Silent_0ne then makes a post that changes everything:
Silent_0ne : Hello everyone
firstly, I would like to say thank you so much to everyone who supported me throughout this bet. i cant stress how much it meant to me to see any post wishing me goodluck, or someone pming me given me some life lessons and more encouragement.
ive been approached by the bettors on numerous occasions regarding a buyout. the original buyout deal offered was 33%. eventually 37% was offered, and then 44%, and finally I agreed on 50% of total wagers from all 6 bettors as their buyout.
I am not really satisfied with a buyout, and I was not the one originally looking for the buyout. the bettors wanted it and I decided to see what they had to offer. what I wanted was time to spend with friends and family throughout the christmas break. With continuing this bet, I do have alot of confidence of accomplishing it, but at the expense of isolation through one of the most special times of each year. My family was mad at me when I tried explaining to them I probably wouldn't be able to particpate in any family events and have much if any celebration of christmas.
my goal the next 14 days was to just grind it out 10 hours each day with breaks inbetween, and sleep. Instead I will be able to go back to my regular, stress free grinding, and shipping 50% of the total wagers after half the month as gone by. In the end, including both the 100nl and 50nl prop bets, I made a net of roughly +20k. The other two options would be risking a net of -20k or a net of +60k. I took the variance free route, and all the bettors did the same thing. None of us wanted to lose the bet obviously, so I think we worked out a fair resolution with this buyout.
I have no hard feelings against fees or wcg rider. Perhaps a different scenerio would have occured if the recent issues did not occur, but thats in the past now and i'm looking forwards to a postive future. (#2511)
So, in the end all the parties involved reached a buyout agreement on the 50nl prop bet. Silent_0ne would stop playing the 50nl prop bet and would be up $20k. The community replies:
Ditch Digger: Silent, nice job. 50% is more than reasonable. (#2516)
kelnel: gg on +20k, u rocked!! (#2520)
shhhnake_eyes: I call this the most anticlimactic finish ever. (#2522)
Link to original thread.
Note: Please note I’ve tried to be impartial in writing this. Please let me know publicly or privately if there are any errors or you feel I misrepresented something or someone. The quotes I’ve included don’t always show the full post made but I’ve included the post number in each quote so you can read it on 2+2 in full context. If you want to be fully informed you should read the whole 2+2 thread.
submitted by GiantHorse to poker [link] [comments]

Bad beat or bad play

This felt like a cooler at the time, but in overthinking retrospect, I wonder if I could have got away.
Online NL50 6-Max
Hero (80bb) is dealt AsQh UTG I raise to 3BB BU 3-bets to 8.5BB, SB calls, BB (180bb) calls, I call Flop comes AdAhQd checks all around. Turn comes Kh BU checks, SB checks, BB bets 18bb, I call, fold, fold. River comes 10h BB jams, I call. He turns over AK for boat over boat.
At the time, I was thinking he would have squeezed with AK pre, so wasn’t worried about it. But what do I beat that jams on that river? I block the nut flush, so prob just J9hh, and even with that, he’s only beating trip As, so not sure if even that’s a jam. KK would have been a def squeeze pre, and J10 is prob a check when the third heart hits.
But at the end of the day, can I ever fold such a nutted hand?
submitted by He_Abides to poker [link] [comments]

What's going on with SaltyBet

( Stuff about this was posted before, but there wasn't a full explanation of what's going on, so here's that.)
tl;dr Salty started deleting characters and people asked questions, those people got banned. People who asked further about what happened, they also got banned. This eventually devolved to the point where even randos get banned because ??? as seen in the album posted before. Salty's complete lack of communication with his community as well as all of this had made a lot of regulars dump their salt and leave SB entirely.
Following EVO Online's cancellation, Salty, the owner of SaltyBet started deleting characters from SaltyBet's MUGEN. It's not uncommon for characters to be removed from SaltyBet's MUGEN every now and then, as some characters can be inappropriate (like +18 edits that sneaked in, even though a simple sprite edit can fix that real quick.) or just downright crash MUGEN. However the deletion of characters this time were done without reason nor explanation, so a few members in the community stepped up to ask what was going on and what happened to the characters.
Those members were immediately slapped with permabans, basically telling us "You don't need to know why I did it, just live with it."
Following these members, questions about the permabans came up from other members in the community. Why were they banned? What happened? What's going on?
Anyone who asked these kind of questions were also promptly permabanned, a majority of them at least.
Anyone who even questioned the situation were likely permabanned as well. These bans also included members who bought the premium membership on the site.
People who were in the SaltyBet Discord (which needs you to be premium, btw) and wanted to know about what was going on also had their Discord chat history hidden, effectively silencing the conversation and making sure no one else knew about how badly Salty was treating his community.
In addition, once details about this ban spree leaked to the common community, newbies were trying to understand what had happened to. Because there were too many people to ban at once, Salty instead opted to silence the embed Twitch chat through a 1-week follower requirement. Everything he's done up to this point has just been to cut off any communication about the issue at hand.
Now, what does this matter to you guys? Bottom line, please consider carefully if you want to support SaltyBet. If you've ever heard about that site and was interested before, things have changed. Some aspects have gone completely downhill and a large number of Salty Bet's regulars have decided they've had enough and left the place altogether, which also led to their accounts being banned.
Salty has clearly lost any and all control over the situation and is using any means necessary to protect the reputation of the site so that more people can continue spending money on the premium membership while he does nothing to fix the issues he's caused.
Permaban Examples ( This album is the same one posted a few hours ago. )
If you're looking for an alternative to SaltyBet, try out SpriteClub. It's functionally the same with better management.
submitted by NekoSchrodinger to Kappa [link] [comments]

[Online Poker] Poker Forum Help Homeless Player Attempt The Shot of a Lifetime.

Link to Previous Tales From 2+2: Poker player steals $1m+ chips and tries to sell it on 2+2 poker forums More Tales From 2+2: A Very Controversial $70k prop bet If you or a friend are familiar with online poker and want to see the unedited version of this post then click here
Here's another Tales From 2+2 post, this one is a bit longer but well worth the read. It follows the story of an online poker player posting on the 2+2 online poker forums and that takes him on the ride of a lifetime. I have made some light edits so it's easier to understand for non poker players, my explanations are within [these brackets]. If you want to understand how to play the poker watch this 3 minute how to play poker video.

Still Booming

The year is 2010.
The effects of the 2003 poker boom are still being felt and Black Friday [Black Friday is when online poker was forced to shut down in the USA, it hit the industry hard] is a year away.
Americans, Europeans, Australians and almost the whole world are playing side by side on Pokerstars and Full Tilt [The two biggest online sites at the time]. Hundreds of people are signing up for poker sites each day. Tournament guarantees are at an all-time high. Poker sites’ pockets are overflowing and sites are offering generous bonuses and promotions. Poker TV is popular worldwide and Poker After Dark just entered its 6th season. The 2+2 poker forums are in full swing, it’s the epicenter of poker communication. Dozens of threads are made on popular subforums like NVG (News, Views and Gossip) or BBV (Beats, Brags and Variance) every day.
BBV is a subforum of 2+2 where the moderation is far laxer than the rest of the 2+2. People often create posts showing off their tournament wins or lamenting huge downswings. After the initial post is made, the trolls would descend and replies like this were often seen:
Colin_Piddle: Ur a clown OP
Tank Home & Away: Somebody call Donald Trump. OP thinks online poker is rigged.
FranFran: Shut up. Idiot.
Dave Coulier: LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL OLLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The BBV Post

On 20th Feb 2010 Jared Huggins, posting under RelaxedPrecision, visits BBV to vent his frustration over busting his meager roll playing 100nl HU:
RelaxedPrecision: Beat: HU vs drooler, lost my $100 bankroll ($100 table obv.)
He raised preflop every single hand including out of position.
Called 75% of my three bets with trash.
Only pot bet, regardless of board, his holdings, or position.
He is -$1132 in 2000 hands, -33/bb 100
We played 250 hands.
This guy was a corpse and I ran so cold it was insane. Only hitting any pair or a decent draw a couple of times. Twilight zone.
Brag: Not homeless again till the end of the month. Getting a third job today. This week I've begged for food at fast food joints and have scored two steak tacos and 1 piece of chicken.
[Jared is complaining that he lost the last of his poker bankroll, $100] The usual procedure in BBV is for the BBV regulars to berate the original poster, usually in meme form. Jared’s thread is no exception:
Sobad87: FAIIIIIIL, homeless shelters exist for a reason.
SmilingOrange: rock bottom itt
Sump: in b4 homeless
However, the thread takes a darker turn when Jared starts to post more details about his living and financial situation.
RelaxedPrecision: I'm 5 peanuts and 2 cups of water into my day. Finding some awesome links about food for broke people in LA. RelaxedPrecision: Last time round, 6 month period, I chose cruising the back streets near my job/sleeping in car, rather than driving hours per day to/from shelter and risking jail/car impoundaments/belongings confiscated.
Jared seems to be not only in dire poverty but also grinding microstakes [microstakes in poker is buying in for $2-10 dollars] for any cash he can get. He posts that the roll he lost was from a referral payment on a poker website but he cant’t withdraw it. The posters start to get a little more sympathetic:
FastPlaySlow: Wow. I feel bad for ya OP.
Kidlover: Keep your head up bro. Gimme a call if you want
A user named Airwave16 offers helps in his own way:
airwave16: create youtube vid of you dancing to around the world by daft punk in your boxers with a large sign that says "i love burningbend" and i'll ship you $30
Within 40 minutes Jared accepts this:
RelaxedPrecision: Never thought I'd do something like this, but I don't have much choice.
RelaxedPrecision: Don't want to go back to living in my car. Last month some guys tried to break into my car while I was inside of it. Terrible experience.
The next day, to the surprise of many he posts a video on Youtube of him around his room, just as Airwave16 asked. Unfortunately the video is lost to time but this small photo of the video remains. 2+2 posters start to show more compassion when they see how desperate Jared is for money:
mcfals02: Hilarious video. Hope you run good at life soon OP.
shikari424: If you've got a ftp [Full Tilt Poker,] account i'll ship something over bro[money could be sent between accounts], made me laugh
Ccuster_911 then offers a little more money for another challenge:
Ccuster_911 : Make a video of you going outside on the streets in LA offering people free HUGs(holding a sign ldo), I will ship you 30$, I want at least 10 random people being hugged
Others start to offer extra money to shoot this video:
cds0699: I'll chip in $10 for this.
Greeson08: $20 more here...$30 more if you paint yourself green before doing the hug thing.
Jared is very thankful for the support and lets his fellow posters know:
RelaxedPrecision: I'm really overwhelmed and surprised. Thank you guys so much, you have no idea how good it feels that people on 2+2 would reach out to me like this. I'm totally blown away. Thank you so much. This is one of the best things that has happened to me in a very long time.
Talked to the lady who rented me this room for 2 weeks. I got 5 days left here, then I'm back living in my car.
I am going to do everything in my power to get back on my feet. I am so close. Every suggestion, I will do. I'll dance for penny. I'll come to your house and clean your toilet. That's where my mind is at
A user asks for him to take a photo with ‘Free Pageh’ on his head, he posts this
swd805: that pic is disturbing
RelaxedPrecision: Mission accomplished.
Jared gives an insight into his mood while performing these tasks
RelaxedPrecision: Please do laugh at me. I laugh at myself as much as possible.
I cried twice. 1st when Airwave propositioned me and I felt different inside, like "time to get desperate man". It was a nasty feeling.
2nd time I cried, when I finished the video & began to ask myself whether or not I would do various things for $ & heard some of the answers in my head.
Both times I fought the tears back & realized I got no choice, need the $. So let's get some more ideas & keep this ball rolling. You guys are helping me, thank you
He also gives insight into his poor mental state and reveals that a 2+2 poster gave him a small stake [someone will send Jared money to play and Jared will split the profits]:
RelaxedPrecision: My friend (who's house I crashed at) is a pro MMA fighter , he lets me attend his MMA/BJJ class once a week. At class today, he yelled at me for doing a takedown wrong. I had a meltdown & broke down in tears in front of the class cuz I've barely eaten in 6 days. Shed 12 pounds this week. Just real drained.
Prop update: Got staked to play $5 Sit n Go's [a one table tournament] on FTP. 5 hours of play, up a few bucks.
4 days till I'm homeless again.
Jared tells a story and hatches a plan while working at his new job:
RelaxedPrecision: Today, this big husky girl with linebacker shoulders came in2 my job today to buy shoes...size 11. She looks exactly like a man. She had this big lady with her who told me the size 11 girl liked me. So I gave her my digits. I hope she calls me soon. If she calls me I'm going to try & seduce her & go live with her. Wherever she lives, I'm sure there's plenty of food.
Over the next few hundred posts the mood of the thread becomes caring and many people are asking Jared about his current lifestyle. He tells the thread about his struggles with permanent housing, a bad back, hunger and employment. He posts photos of his car (where he sleeps) and a video of him dancing at work. Jared reveals intimate parts of himself and his passion for writing and music. He also posts that he has encountered problems with substance abuse and has been sober for a while. The trickle of small donations from posters becomes a steady flow:
JeReMyHaSSpoKen: pm me western union or paypal And ill ship you some cash
Greeson08: Jared, hit me up on Skype. Sending $11.11 via FTP.
A month after Jared creates the BBV thread, March 9th, Jared posts the long awaited video of him hugging strangers that Ccuster_911 requested. Luckily, the video is still on YouTube. Here is the link. At this point he fittingly reveals his name is Jared Huggins and his nickname in school was Huggy. His fans love the video and let him know:
Doomriders: amazing nice job brothaa
cds0699: Very amazing vid and I wish you nothing but the best
Talking Poker: Video is awesome. Thread is awesome. You are awesome.
And he really enjoyed the experience:
RelaxedPrecision: I was surprised by the number of people who literally RAN into my arms.
It was a day & an experience that I will never forget.
If you enjoy the video half as much as I enjoyed making it, I'll be happy.
He tells 2+2 more about his life:
RelaxedPrecision: You guys reaching out to me is very much appreciated. I've had my fair share of obstacles in life. Born in a crack house, father died when I was 9, mother is an alcoholic, one brother a heroine addict, the other a crack dealer who was beaten and left for dead and never fully recovered his mind.
Last year ran bad at life...lost my job, ripped my meniscus in two places, had a terrible reaction to prescription stress meds..etc etc. I ended up living in my calosing contact with my family... cuz my cousin is hooked on muscle relaxers & vicodin and it hurts too much to watch people I love hurt themselves.We all have challenges, and obstacles. Life is tough for everybody.
I'm healthy, normal, moving in a positive direction
Jared’s birthday comes on the 12th of March and many posters wish him a happy birthday. At this point the donations from 2+2 posters continue and totals $1k. A few weeks later and Jared posts an amusing and NSFW story about living in a car. It’s long and not essential to the story so I won’t quote it. Read it here.
Jared thanks the community again:
RelaxedPrecision: I've never had people care about me like this before, let alone strangers.
From the bottom of my heart I would like to thank all of you.

The Big Game

Poker TV was very popular in 2010. The WSOP and other TV shows were broadcast across America and other countries. Pokersites were very keen on poker advertising appearing on TV, it was a very effective way to promote online poker sites. Full Tilt sponsored and regularly advertised on Poker After Dark. Full Tilt is even included in the show's title, which for a time prompted players associated with Pokerstars to stop appearing on the show. Pokerstars did not have as big a presence on TV as Full Tilt and they wanted to change that. How better than creating their own show? They would be able to have a majority of Pokerstars pros on TV and have players wearing their advertising patches.
Thus, Pokerstars created The Big Game. The Big Game was a televised cash game [a cash game is different to a tournament, the players' chips represent cash explained more here] with a novel concept: each episode featured a loose cannon. The loose cannon is a recreational player, who is given $100k to play 150 hands of high stakes poker. The loose cannon gets to keep any profits from their session and the biggest winner from the season also gets $50k in NAPT tournament entrance costs. Any Pokerstars player is welcome to try to become the Loose Cannon.
The line ups consisted of some popular pros who have a lively table presence like Daniel Negreanu, Phil Hellmuth and Tony G. It also had some of the strongest players of the time like Ike Haxton and Phil Galfond. Joe Stapleton made his debut on the show as an announcer. He who would go on to do a great deal of poker commentating over the next decade. Each episode aired on The Fox Network and Pokerstars.tv.
In the same BBV thread Jared started, one of the posters has a bright idea:
MasterWolf: I think you should apply to be a Loose Cannon on the Big Game. I know you'd get tons of 2+2 support, plus, you are awesome at making videos.
One of the Jared’s strongest supporters on 2+2 takes a keen interest in this idea:
John_Wray: THIS! Is this something we can make happen? I don't know anything about the process.
Others agree:
Rusemandingo: Would be amazing.
AyinHara: for the producers of the Big Game, this is an easy one. snap it up!
King Fish: PokerStars Steve was looking for 2p2 recommendations awhile ago. I sent him a text nominating OP but have not heard back. I suggest all of you PM him, and point him to this thread. Would make a much better story than anyone on here, and he has the video to back up both the story and personality already shot.
But how can Jared apply to go on The Big Game?
Pokerstars run several tournament qualifiers for The Big Game on Pokerstars. These are details taken from The Big Game website:
There are free-to-enter Big Game Round 1 satellites running four times a day. Finish in the top 300 and you’ll advance to Round 2. Make it into the top 1,000 in a Round 2 tournament and you’ll get a seat in the Big Game Final Round qualifier. All players that finish in the top 200 in the final will be invited to send PokerStars a casting video, telling us why you think you should be on TV’s best new cash game show. Impress us with your video and you’ll be heading off to Las Vegas to star on the show as a Loose Cannon qualifier. Once the video is posted, people will vote on the their favourite video.
The freerolls are popular and attract about 5000 people for each round 1 freeroll. Jared would need to finish in the top 6% of the round 1 freeroll then he’ll be in the round 2 freeroll, he would need to finish in the top 15% to qualify for round 3. In round 3, only 200 qualify to make a video. The round 2 and 3 qualifier only ran once a week so Jared had a limited amount of attempts.
John_Wray starts a new thread in support of Jared being considered to be a loose cannon on The Big Game. Within 24 hours the thread has over 400 posts, most of them people putting down their support for Jared to be on The Big Game.
Boosted J hears of Jared’s story and posts in the petition thread. Boosted J is the screen name of Justin Smith, a skilled professional player. Boosted J offers Jared a potential job, poker coaching and access to his private mental coach. Boosted J would go on to get Jared in a Dr Dre video as an extra.
At this point RelaxedPrecision is one year sober and life is looking good for him. He posts a video rapping about overcoming life’s obstacles. Daniel Negreanu notices and tweets about his rap:
RealKidPoker: Homeless guy Jared Huggins rapping about being sober 1 year, powerful lyrics. Guy has an amazing story to tell.
John_Wray reports that Jared has already started playing the freeroll qualifiers [a freeroll is a free to enter tournament]:
John_Wray: Jared's in a hotel tonight grinding the freerolls .
Jared is ready to play all four round 1 qualifiers on days he had free:
RelaxedPrecision: Going to grind as many of these things as humanly possible.
RelaxedPrecision: I got out my schedule for the month, there will be for sure be days coming up where I will play all 4 first round games.
Support pours in:
CrazyNL: awsome man gl
NomoneyHU: I'd like to wish you good luck man , i'm currently watching your video. Happy that things is going your way from now! I hope that you do qualify for the PS Big Game and ship all the manies.
Sump: I hope you win this and double up on Big Game, ship the NAPT Passport
People start to watch him play and offer him advice. Jared found the journey hard at times:
RelaxedPrecision: Watched guys ship all in preflop with 72o for 4 hours straight. I get an above average stack, get it in with 10 10, run it smack dab into KK. And encountered his fair share of bad beats: RelaxedPrecision: Survive that, get it in with. 58 on a 8s7h6d flop vs Js7s, turn and river are spades, and it's time for a cold shower. lol
[Here he is saying that he feels the other players in the tournament are not playing well but he feels when he played well he felt he was unlucky]
Jared starts a new day of round 1 qualifiers, ready to play all 4.
RelaxedPrecision: Fresh day of freerolls starts in 20 minutes. Playing more aggressive today. Feeling optimistic.
He starts playing a round 1 tournament qualifier and is doing well. He’s getting closer:
pokernutssss: 322/379! 79 to go GL jared
John_Wray: just fold into the win now. you've got enough chips
Until:
MicroRoller: Congrats! 1 down 2 to go.
RelaxedPrecision: YEEEEEEEEEEHAW!!!
Feels good to be out of round 1. Just gotta find a way to run good [getting lucky]!
The next day, Jared enters round 2 and plays this hand in the middle stages:
Poker Stars Freeroll No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t500/t1000 Blinds + t250 - 9 players
BSKid (BTN): t47500 M = 12.67
bones_522004 (SB): t119200 M = 31.79
tanwaruw (BB): t59200 M = 15.79
carlo 1959 (UTG): t1500 M = 0.40
mydream4u (UTG+1): t16200 M = 4.32
berdootim (UTG+2): t47150 M = 12.57
dickblow (MP1): t1750 M = 0.47
Life Guru (MP2): t42350 M = 11.29
Jared Huggins (CO:) with 6s6c : t9300 M = 2.48
Pre Flop: (t3750)
4 folds, Life Guru raises to t2000, Jared Huggins raises to t9050 all in, 3 folds, Life Guru calls t7050
Flop: (t21850) TcQh7s (2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn: (t21850) Jh (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: (t21850)Jd (2 players - 1 is all in)
Final Pot: t21850 Life Guru shows 8dAc (a pair of Jacks) Jared Huggins shows 6s6c (two pair, Jacks and Sixes) Jared Huggins wins t21850 [Jared plays well and wins]
RelaxedPrecision: **** yeah
But then falls:
John_Wray: ugh. You played great though.
After Jared asks about poker training sites, Taylor Caby pops into the thread to offer Jared membership to his training site: CardRunners:
Green Plastic: Hey Jared,
if you'd like to try out CardRunners for free shoot me a PM, I'll have someone set you up over there.
After making a few deep runs in the round 1 tournaments, Jared has several round 2 tickets and is putting his newly found membership to good use:
RelaxedPrecision: Won 3/4 round 1 tournaments today. Now I have four round 2 Tokens saved. Watching Cardrunner.com videos all day tommorrow, and grinding more freerolls
A few days later and Jared makes the final round of freerolls:
Amnestia: gg, jared, good luck in round 3 Isitdur?: It would be the sickest rags to riches story ever if you got on The Big Game, Jared. I really hope you do it. Good luck in Round 3 I will be railing along with all of your other supporters!
Jared registers and plays a round three qualifier tournament and encounters this hand:
Preflop: Jared Huggins in MP1 with AcKc
UTG bets t1200, Jared Huggins raises to t3000, 1 fold, MP2 calls t3000, MP3 calls t3000, 4 folds, UTG calls t1800
Flop: (t14250) 3c6sKs (4 players)
UTG checks, Jared Huggins bets t10000, MP2 calls t10000, MP3 calls t1950 (All-In), 1 fold
Turn: (t36200) Ac (3 players, 1 all-in)
Jared Huggins bets t25000, MP2 raises to t26050 (All-In), Jared Huggins calls t1050
River: (t88300) 4d (3 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: t88300
Results: Jared Huggins shows AcKc (two pair, Aces and Kings). MP2 shows Js9s (flush, Ace high). MP3 shows KdTs (one pair, Kings). Outcome: MP2 won t88300 [Jared plays well but get unlucky in a large pot and is out of this round 2 tournament]
Jared is out and continues to grind the qualifying tournaments. A week later and he registers for a round three freeroll and is going deep. A fan posts his position:
MasterWolf: Current Stats: 81,262 chips. avg: 142,959. position 247 / 348. Top 200 get in
Jared gets closer…
MasterWolf: 44 left. he's got 7th shortest stack in tourney. BUT HE CAN DO IT! Go Jared!!
Jared wins a key pot:
John_Wray: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
NomoneyHU: SSHHHHHHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP PPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jared gets increasingly close but is very shortstacked [doesn't have many chips]:
The railbirds [players who watch online poker] watch on:
__27__: Never been so happy railing [watching] a freeroll, this is some crazy ****.
Hard bubble and the tournament goes hand for hand [this means there is only 1 player left to go out, when they do all remaining players qualify for the video round]:
MasterWolf: 1 person left
Jared posts. He has qualified!
RelaxedPrecision: I can't believe this is actually happening.
Jared has done it. With the full support of his fan base Jared is one big step closer to getting onto The Big Game. The posters go crazy in his sweat thread and dozens of people congratulate him.
Afterwards, Pokerstatic interview Jared and he opens up about his difficult upbringing and life. Link to summary here.
Jared is very popular on 2+2 and has a keen fan base but not everyone likes the attention and donations Jared is getting. Later on a Jared opposition thread would be created. Here’s an example of opposition towards Jared:
Lchampag: Its just the way everyone here is completely giving this story all their faith. Just reminds me of those old people that get scammed is all.
I work in the coal mining industry. Pay starts out at around $20/h for the first six months(for"red hats") and then goes to around 25 after that for a general laborer. There are men hired at my mines everyday, come and get a freaking job! I guess this work is too hard for those that would just rather get handouts...
Some people were upset he was getting so much in donations. In 2010 he received $6k from 2+2 members. Jared’s fans respond with posts like this:
Srkbigdaddy: i dont know why people would bother posting in a thread that actually has a ton of heart with their snide and rude remarks. obviously its okay to post your feelings but if they are not gonna help the situation then they are pointless. you are basically just stepping on someone who is down
John Wray gives an update on Jared and his health:
John Wray: Jared is seeing his therapist again, and has just moved into a new place. He's very happy with it as it is within his price range and his landlord is a former deacon. They plan to attend services together on Sundays.
His bad back is still a big problem, one that needs to be addressed immediately.
Grayson Physioc also known as Spacegravy on 2+2 is a SNG [Sit 'n' Go, a one table tournament] crusher who fought his way from from microstakes to highstakes [A common story for skilled players to deposit $100 on a pokersite, fight their way up the ranks and turn it into millions]. He arrives in the thread and offers to fly Jared to Maimi and coach him, Jared flies out and posts this from Miami:
RelaxedPrecision: Spacegravy flew me out here to Miami to learn Sit N Go's, I'm totally blown away! He is an A+ human being! Haven't gone to the beach, haven't gone sight-seeing, haven't gone anywhere, just straight up grinding poker. Grinding as much as possible!
While in Miami, Jared’s mind is on making the best video he can to ensure he gets onto The Big Game. John_Wray helped, by the 28th of October it is finished and posted.
Jared’s Big Game Audition Tape
November the first rolls by and the audition tapes of all the qualifiers are uploaded and ready to be voted on. Jared is looking good and is in second place with 1.1k votes.
2nd November and Jared returns from Miami. He’s up $800 on SNGs from his time playing and getting mentored by SpaceGravy.
The weeks pass by. People can vote on one video per day so Jared’s fans are visiting and voting as much as they can:
8Nilor: Voting everyday btw. and got others to also.
The thread builds with excitement. With so many fans in the poker world Jared is sure to be selected to go on The Big Game. In December, Jared posts that all is going well with him. He has two jobs and a room to stay in. Jared gives a few updates:
RelaxedPrecision: When I'm not at work, I am working on my game everyday, grinding 50NL 6 max deep on Stars, going over hand histories, and getting coaching when I can.
[50nl deep is a type of poker played with 6 maximum players on the table buying in for $50-100]
2011 begins. In January the voting closes and Jared can only wait.
And then the news that Jared and many 2+2 posters have been waiting for is here. Jared notices an email from Pokerstars. He reads the news from Pokerstars about The Big Game.
He receives the results and rushes to 2+2 to share the news:
RelaxedPrecision: I got an email from PokerStars informing me that I was not selected to compete as a Loose Cannon on next season’s PokerStars Big Game. I wasn’t given any specific reason why I wasn’t selected, but I was thanked for trying out.
TwoPlusTwo.com, thank all of you for supporting me and showing me love. To be loved was a dream come true for me. I'm convinced that love cures most illness.
Jared was not successful. It's crushing news to the community. All their efforts spent helping Jared onto The Big Game was for nothing.
The community reply to the news:
AlienSpaceBat: Wow, Jared, I'm really sorry to hear this
Isitdur?: So bummed to hear this news, Jared.
2ndUnit: I am very, very disappointed of this decision by PS. Don't let it bring you down Jared, keep going.
A few weeks pass and there’s not much news from Jared. He settles back into working and improving his situation.

It’s all over

Jared had not made the cut for The Big Game.
But it’s not all bad.
Jared is in a much better position than he was a year ago.
He has a roof over his head and steady employment.
The past year was a crazy ride for him and he’s made many friends from 2+2.
His poker skill is improving and he has top players coaching him.
But no one predicted what would happen next month.
In the middle of February 2011, a Pokerstars representative dropped into 2+2 to post unbelievable news:
PokerstarsSteve: The seven Loose Cannons scheduled for the July 2011 showing of The PokerStars.net Big Game are:
Gonzales Cannon II - Sacramento, CA
Courtney Gee - Vancouver BC
Jared Huggins - Los Angeles, CA
Massimiliano Martinez - Rome, Italy
Cari Bershell - Las Vegas, NV
Kenneth Hrankowski - Vancouver BC
Anton Dunyushkin - Moscow, Russia
Jared Huggins is confirmed to appear on The Big Game Season 2. This is shocking to the community because there was no knowledge on 2+2 that he was even considered for season 2. The community erupts:
ak47: YESSSSSSSSSSSSS!
ROADHEAD: WOW NO WAY, WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED!!
MrPowell222: WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO!
TayWolf55: GO GO GO GO GO Jared!
Almost exactly a year after living in his car and making his BBV thread he has the shot of a lifetime for fame and fortune.
But first, Jared needs to prepare for the biggest shot of his life.
Jared dedicates four months to preparation for going on The Big Game. He plays as much online cash game poker as he can. He has access to a training site and receives free coaching from top pros. To simulate The Big Game he plays 50,000 hands of 6max deep online [6max deep is the poker format played on The Big Game] and even plays tough opponents who would drop down in stakes to play with him.
In 2011 he makes three trips from LA to Las Vegas to practice and get used to live play. He practices chip handling, breathing and getting comfortable going from online to live. He reads Caro’s Books of Tells and would sit at the lowest stakes while studying every player closely. He never parties on these trips, just play and study.
He watches all 72 episodes of The Big Game Season 1 and analyzes every hand. While watching he would have seen Season 1’s biggest winner, Bob Ferdinand, win $181,500 and $50k in NAPT tournament entries.
In this time Jared remakes his Free Hugs video and once again, wanders LA shores with a sign and offers free hugs to the public. Jared uses some of the money from this video and donates $1k to charity. Reshot video here
The line up for The Big Game is announced:
Seat 1: Jared Huggins
Seat 2: Nick Cassavetes – A recreational player. Cassavetes works in the film industry.
Seat 3: Barry Greenstein – Poker legend known for his ‎Philanthropy
Seat 4: Vanessa Selbst – An aggressive and skilled player. Won NAPT Mohegan Sun Main Event back to back.
Seat 5: Antonio Esfandiari – An accomplished player who would go on to win The Big Drop for $18m next year.
Seat 6: Prahlad Friedman – An experienced cash game player. Played under Spirit Rock and used to crush online games
Reserve: Phil Lakk - An entertaining professional player.
There are certainly some tough opponents on this table. Fortunately, Jared has a recreational player on his left [at the poker table players on the left are more likely to apply pressure than players on the right. Because Cassavetes is a recreational player he should be applying less pressure on Jared than a pro].
The community reacts:
blackjacki2: hard lineup
J0hny: Best of luck to you !
Then the day of filming arrives. Jared drives to Las Vegas to play in the biggest cash game of his life. He’s had months of training for this one moment. Hundreds of people on 2+2 are following his progress and Jared will soon be broadcast across the USA playing with seasoned professionals.
Now, the story is almost at an end. You have three options on how to consume the finale:
  1. You can watch all four episodes of The Big Game to see what happens, links below. When you are finished watching, click the spoiler box below and read the end of the story.
  2. If you don’t want to watch all 4 episodes then I’ve posted some timestamped links of Jared’s biggest hands, I’ve linked one hand per episode. There are 12 minutes of clips. When you are finished watching, click the spoiler box below and read the end of the story.
  3. If you don’t want to watch any Big Game then click the spoiler box below and read on. [If you want to watch some of The Big Game it may be a good idea to watch this video I linked in the introduction again]

Full Episodes

Full episode. 1st episode
Full episode. 2nd episode
Full episode. 3rd episode
Full episode. 4th episode
Full episode. 5th episode

Highlights – Jared’s Biggest Hands

Jared Hand 1, watch from 35:00 - 37:28
Jared Hand 2, watch from 35:00 - 36:45
Jared Hand 3, watch from 39:40 - 42:10
Jared Hand 4, watch from 10:15 – 17:10

Epilogue

Jared did not end up profiting on the episode. He played until hand 126 of 150 when he ran his QQ into Cassavetes’ KK. Jared doesn’t hit and is off The Big Game.[KK is the second best hand in poker and QQ is the third best, so it was unlucky for Jared to get QQ and another player has KK. However, Jared was playing poorly and too passively in other hands in the episodes]
Posts from 2+2 were mixed, many posts in the thread were not kind towards his play. The community criticized some of the hands he played:
Jazzed23: the dude played like crap. No 3 betting, no bluffing, no floating and turn barrelling. he was playing scared and tight. Blew away $25k just by folding.
cobrastatus: How could this guy... get so much free coaching... and be so terrible...
trip_kings12: what a waste of a week for this show. Jared, the loose cannon, was almost unbearable to watch. I doubt I've ever seen a tighter, more scared loose cannon in all my years in poker.
[The posters here are saying that he was playing poorly and passively]
One fan posts this:
LolDonkamentz: I'll admit I was kind of disappointed with the result of this. I enjoyed all the build up and was really excited for this to be the climax of the Jared Huggins saga but it wasn't to be. His awkwardness at the table combined with his below average performance made for bad television
And Jared replied:
RelaxedPrecision: To you and others Donkamentz, sorry if I wasn't able to do my part to entertain you. It's a big show with lots of people on it, so I don't feel solely responsible for your entertainment, any more than I feel responsible for not hitting a huge hand. Thank you for caring about how I did.
Most of the posts were neutral or negative but there were still some positive posts:
kevmode: Gl to you in the future Jared. You are a nice guy, just block out the negative and think positive.
So, what happened to Jared after The Big Game?
After The Big Game, Jared stopped posting so much in 2+2 and he slowly faded from posters’ minds.
Shortly after The Big Game, he posted a post show reflection where he thanked the community, he spoke of how he enjoyed playing with the pros and his heartbreak after busting. He wished he had talked more and played some hands differently. He finishes with a final thought:
RelaxedPrecision: I'm happy and grateful for what this journey has been. I made some amazing friendships, saw amazing places, and had my dreams come true. I had amazing experiences, that I will never in my life forget, memories that I will always look back upon with a smile.
In 2012 he posted this post where he shared his battles with health conditions and how he still plays poker.
In 2016 he posted this in a thread about poker in developing countries. He wrote about living in China for 9 months.
Original Threads:
HU VS a drooler, lost my "roll"
**Petition to have Jared "RelaxedPrecision" Huggins for PS Big Game
**The Jared Huggins 'Big Game' Sweat Thread
Jared Huggins Big Game Trip Report-Thank You 2+2
submitted by GiantHorse to HobbyDrama [link] [comments]

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