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Debunking some Legends Palpatine wank

Star Wars is easily the worst franchise to talk about on WhoWouldWin by far. At least with Naruto or Dragon Ball Z or One Punch Man there's some difference in the comments once in a while. But literally, and I mean literally, the replies of every single Star Wars thread, no matter the character, no matter the matchup, are exactly the same every single time without fail.
Here's every Star Wars thread on WhoWouldWin ever:
Star Wars character vs. other character
Round 1: Canon
Round 2: Legends
Top comment with 3k+ upvotes: Star Wars character loses round 1, but in round 2 they absolutely godstomp 10/10 times they speedblitz the other character at FTL speeds and slash them seventeen thousand times in an attosecond with their lightsaber, or they use their Planetary+++ Force abilities to choke the other person to death and while they're choking them they stab them, or they make their heart stop or rip their organs out their chest with the Force in a microsecond. The other character literally can't even hit them because they're FTL and have nanosecond level precog that lets them avoid every hit ever. Palpatine can destroy planets Obi-Wan can open black holes with his mind Luke is literally a Force God who can annihilate half the galaxy with a blink LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO!!!
Reply to that comment with 500+ upvotes: Yeah bro, this is kind of a complete and total godstomp, don't know why OP bothered posting it lol legends always wins LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO!!!
Reply to first comment, score below threshold, hidden: Um, scans?
Now, for all you people unfamiliar with Star Wars, you're probably wondering what "Legends" is. Legends is simply the official term used to refer to the old Expanded Universe content made for Star Wars, so books, comics, anything other than the movies pretty much. After buying Star Wars, Disney went and made the majority of the Expanded Universe part of its own separate non-canon continuity, meaning there's two versions of most Star Wars characters: Canon and Legends. "Star Wars Legends," or just "Legends" is used to refer to the Legends continuity as a whole.
Legends, and I'm brave enough to say this, is the single most wanked series in battleboarding history. The way people talk about it, you'd think every book is a non-stop balls to the wall orgy of FTL and planet-busting feats. It's to the point where you don't have to link any scans or post any clips: just saying the words "LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO" is a bulletproof argument in and of itself.
But is Legends crazy, bro?
The answer is: It's fake. All of it. The feats, the preconceptions... it's all fake.
I can't fucking stand Legends wank, mostly because it kills all discussion of Star Wars on versus sites. I like Star Wars quite a bit, and I'd like to see some intelligent discussion of it in my dumb, pointless hobby. But every attempt at a Star Wars thread is drowned out by the incessant drum of LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! It fucking haunts me, I close my eyes and instead of black it's just the Obi-Wan VS Kakashi Death Battle on loop.
At the suggestion of my therapist, I'm fighting back. This is the beginning of a series of posts where I'm going to be debunking Legends wank I find on sites like VSBW. I decided to start with Palpatine because he's personally the character I see getting the most of it. And besides, this is gonna be my own personal Order 66 on Legends wank. So who else could be more appropriate?

The Claim: Palpatine can make planet-destroying Force Storms on a whim.

When someone mentions planet-busting Palpatine on WhoWouldWin, nine times out of ten this is what they're talking about. You usually don't get links for Legends claims, but for the power of the Force Storm ability, I usually see this one posted when its brought up. It's from a book called The Jedi Path, which is supposed to be an in-universe Jedi manual complete with notations from the characters who owned it. So the quote from Luke - "it has the power to kill worlds" - is an in-universe statement of power.
So, what's Force Storm? Basically its an ability where a hyperspace wormhole is opened using the Force. It can be used to transport people across the galaxy and destroy things, which yes, includes planets according to The Jedi Path. It's a not very commonly seen Force power, first appearing in the Dark Empire comics. Palpatine creates one and uses it to do some major damage to Coruscant and the New Republic fleet. However, he ends up killing himself with the storm accidentally after Luke and Leia interrupt his connection to it.
Palpatine can create Force Storms, Force Storms can destroy planets. So Palpatine's planetary. Seems pretty clean cut, right?
Except, he can't create Force Storms. At least according to Tom Veitch, author of Dark Empire (which had the first appearance of the power). Third line. If you want to read the full 2016 interview, here it is. It's translated from Spanish, but the translation is very direct, at least for the relevant section.
Yep, apparently Force Storms are "in fact a phenomenon that occurs rarely, when the minds of two great Force users meet and struggle with each other at a distance." Straight from the mouth of God, Palpatine can't make them of his own will.
There's probably arguments you could make that he could, like Palpatine claiming he can create them of his own will in-story, but that same scan mentions him lying about how much control he has over the power, so I don't really buy his word. You can say "it's a book, why would he lie," but it's basically his autobiography. Considering he's shouted "unlimited power" at the top of his lungs before, it's clear he's kind of an insane egomaniac. I wouldn't put it beyond him. Some roleplaying guidebooks give him the power in his list of abilities (like if you want to play as him in the game or use him as an enemy) but I feel that's too tertiary to count. And really, it kinda makes sense he can't really pull them out all the time when you think about it. There's two sequels to Dark Empire where he's reborn again in clone bodies, and in none of the sequels does he try to use a Force Storm. Even though it would come in handy, like, a lot.
In any case, if you're arguing Palpatine can make Force Storms, you're arguing against the guy that created Force Storms to begin with. I think he'd know how they work.
For more evidence, here's another interview with Tom Veitch that backs up this other interview.
Basically, Tom reiterates what's said in the other interview, going into a bit more detail. He says that the intended mechanism behind the Force Storm in Dark Empire is the "meeting of two great minds" thing from before, with one being Luke and one being Palpy, with Palpy just being the one who can actually use the storm to his advantage. While he does say that there are other possible explanations, like Luke finding a Sith holocron or saying that the interviewer's suggestion of Palpatine maybe only stumbling across the power recently could work, the intended explanation when the comic was being published was the "meeting of Luke and Palpatine's power" interpretation.
I'd also like to mention the Force Storm's entry from the updated version of the Star Wars Encyclopedia: "A tornado of energy created by great disturbances in the Force. Dark Side Adepts demonstrated limited control over the creation of these storms. Emperor Palpatine claimed the ability to create and control Force storms at will. Light-side practitioners could also band together and create powerful Force storms."
This backs up the "meeting of Luke and Palpatine's power" interpretation in a few ways.
First, going back to the interview, Tom implied that things were kept kind of vague about how the Force Storm works when details had to be hashed out to other publications. So that's probably why both this and the Dark Empire endnotes only say that Palpatine claimed he had the ability to create and control the storms at will.
Second off, I'd like to point out the main description - "A tornado of energy created by great disturbances in the Force." Sounds a bit less like a standard Force power and more like something a bit more exceptional. The destruction of Alderaan caused a great disturbance in the Force, and that was a pretty major event. Also going back to the interview, Tom all but says he made this part of the description up himself. The original description he mentions being in a behind the scenes glossary also calls them "unpredictable" and seems to suggest them being more of an external event.
Third, "Dark Side Adepts demonstrated limited control over the creation of these storms" seems like it could debunk the idea, unless you read it as "multiple Dark Side adepts working together could demonstrate limited control over the creation of a Force Storm," which I think is perfectly reasonable considering the next line about multiple Light-side practicioners having to band together to create one. This final line also gives canon support to the idea of multiple Force users being involved in the creation of a Force Storm.
Yes, there are some sources that say he can make Force Storms of his own will, but for each of those sources there's also one that says it's a claim, and the Dark Empire endnotes prove Palpy isn't 100% trustworthy. Not to mention the other sources are, let's face it, pretty much on the level of WoG too. Just an author saying things about a story outside the context of that story. Do you take diluted, inconsistent, but published WoG from some handbooks, or do you take straight fron the source, consistent for 20 years (going off the second interview) WoG from the author of Dark Empire and creator of Force Storms himself? Personally, I'll take the latter, thanks. You can scream "WoG is fake!" until your face turns blue, I usually do too, but I feel this is consistent and not-off-the-cuff enough to count, and doesn't step on that many toes other than some guides he didn't even write published years after his own work. If you read Dark Empire with this idea in mind, you'll find pretty much everything makes perfect sense.
I've also seen people bring up two things in trying to say that this couldn't possibly be true: one, that we've seen other people make Force Storms of their own power in Legends, and two, that Force Storms naturally occur on the planet Tython. The thing is, we haven't. The only other uses of Force Storm needed an incredibly powerful, magic, sentient staff that absorbs large amounts of Force to pull off, which actually supports the idea that Sith need an external force or push to be able to make a Force Storm, and the "Force storm" on the planet Tython is actually a different thing with the same name.
In any case, I really don't think Force Storms matter that much in the grand scheme of things. Once again, Palpatine doesn't whip these out all the time, and its already been established that it's dubious he's completely making them of his own power, taking into account consistent Word of God, multiple sources saying he only claims he can make them of his own power, and a canon basis for it taking multiple Force users to make one. He'd probably end up killing himself if he tried to make one in a fight, and there's no other evidence to suggest that he has planet-level power anyway other than this one power in this one series that the primary author has said he can't really even do.
Besides, it's not like the power for the Force Storm comes from Palpatine even if you believe (against the author of Dark Empire and creator of the power) that he can make them at a snap of his fingers. If you ignore Veitch's definition of the power, then we're left with stuff like Palpatine's descriptions to go off of, and he explicitly says in both the endnotes and audiobook that the Force Storm utilizes external energy. As I've said, I find his word iffy, but The Jedi Path also calls the Force Storm "pure natural energy," and the previously mentioned magical staff relies on absorbing external energy to create a Force Storm. Once again, even ignoring Veitch's words, it's consistent that it's external energy being used. I guess you could say "all Force is external" though, but even then it's not like Palpatine makes the vortex, he makes a disturbance which creates the vortex. Honestly, the idea you can scale one Force ability to others is weird to me anyways. Like if a guy lifts a rock with TK, what does that say about his mind control capabilities? Could he mind control a being that weighs as much as the rock?
So if you're trying to do a VSBW thing where "using the Force Storms means he has planetary power which he can harness in his other Force attacks," no.
Finally, I'd like to debunk the idea that Palpatine created multiple Force Storms at once in Dark Empire. Post's too big to fit it, so read it here.
To TL;DR it all, there's solid WoG backed up by canon evidence that says Palpy can't make Force Storms, and even if you throw that WoG out, Force Storms aren't applicable in most standard matchups since Palpy would almost certainly kill himself with one in a 1v1 fight because they're fucking massive and he hasn't shown full control over them. His other Force abilities don't scale to Force Storms either.

Verdict: No, he still probably can't on his own, and if he can, they're still not particularly combat applicable and you can't scale his other Force powers to them.

The Claim: Palpatine is a SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER!

This next thing I'm talking about comes from a novel called Darth Plagueis. This is the book your Legends fan friend won't shut up about.
Basically, the prologue has a highly poetically worded scene describing Palpatine's feelings after killing his master. Some of it has been misinterpreted as actually happening in the context of the story. Here's the scene.
I don't really know what else to say here, it's not actually happening. It's just a flowery description of how Palpatine feels, it's not literally going on. This was spread on VSBW as proof of Palpatine being planet/stasolar system level, I'm assuming because of these specific parts.
Yeah, this is just... again, it's not actually happening. I could go on and say what each line represents about what Palpatine's currently feeling and how its clearly just a reflection of his emotions, but I don't have to. All I have to do is flip over to the last chapter of the book, which describes the same exact scene with a whole lot less flair. For anyone who wants to make the argument that at least the quake happened because the text I linked mentions overturned furniture, it was overturned in the fight between Palpatine and Plagueis. Not by any Force earthquake.
So, yeah. It's just in Palpy's head after he kills his master. Not literal.

Verdict: Learn reading comprehension.

The Claim: Palpatine is 34 thousand times faster than the speed of light.

Of all the Star Wars stats, speed is the fuckiest of all. That's because the main projectile of the series, blaster bolts, are incredibly vague in terms of speed. The movies usually show them as like, Nerf dart to baseball speed, while the novels go as high as calling them lightspeed (they're obviously not, but that's for another post). Since pretty much all speed feats that would involve gunfire in other series instead involve blaster fire, it makes things really annoying to pin down, as well as open to dipshit amounts of wank.
If you open up Palpatine's VSBW page, he's given a speed ranking of "MFTL+," thanks to incestuous scaling, taking blaster bolts as lightspeed due to like 7 dubious statements across 381 books, and a calc of the time his Sith spirit moved across the galaxy to inhabit a new clone body. The calc specifically puts him at 34,292c, or over 34 thousand times faster than the speed of light.
Star Wars characters are fast, guise!
Alright, let me try to explain why this is dumb. First off, why would the speed of Palpatine's spirit be equal to his speed in a mortal body? It's not like he can like, fucking fly through space like his spirit presumably can. I'm also going to guess his spirit weighs less, but, that's straying into dumb territory. To summarize this point: I don't see why Palpatine would be as fast as his disembodied consciousness, and I think it's kinda weird and dumb to assume so.
Second off, here's a few lines of text I want to take a closer look at.
He had spent over a year disembodied, formless, drifting through the maddening void of the Dark Side. He had never foreseen having to transport his spirit so far across space. He had nearly dispersed forever, but he had survived, and now need never fear death again.
According to the Dark Empire Sourcebook, Palpatine traveled "through the maddening void of the Dark Side." Sounds a little different than traveling through actual space.
But in that moment, when flashing blue energy rushed from exploded flesh, the Emperor entered a bodiless transitional state. As conscious Dark Force he was translated across the Galaxy...
According to the Dark Empire Endnotes, he was "translated across the galaxy" as "conscious Dark Force," which again, sounds a little different from traveling the distance in real space as a ghost.
There's other stuff like this too, in fact a guide kinda retcons the entire thing into him possessing an aide who travels to the planet for him. Personally, I think there is far too much weirdness around this "feat" to count it as some sort of actual indication of Palpatine's speed. Force users generally don't seem this fast in the majority of Star Wars media anyway.

Verdict: No.

The Claim: Palpatine scales to other Sith Lords who have CRAZY feats, bro!!1!!!

So, Palpy can't summon planet-destroying Force Storms whenever he pleases, rearrange stars with his own power, or move faster than the speed of light. But, I hear the people scream, what about scaling!?! Palpatine is routinely called the strongest Dark Side user in history, so he should scale to all previous Sith Lords and such, right?
I can actually buy that, yes. There's tons of statements backing up Sheev as pretty much the ultimate Dark Side user, so I think it's reasonable enough to assume he can match his predecessors. So, lets look at all the high end Dark Side stuff I could dig up, and why it's all either fake or not really something you should scale Sidious to. Most of this stuff I found on VSBW. I might be missing one or two things, but honestly, they're probably just fake too..
If you're wondering about the absence of Vitiate and Nihilus, this is going to be a multi-post series, and I'm thinking KOTOR will just get its entire own post. That being said, most of Vitiate's stuff is rituals, which I think Palpatine could replicate but wouldn't really be able to in a standard matchup, and I think Nihilus's status as a wound in the Force explains his unique attributes, and as such I'm not really sure if Palpatine could replicate the things he does. I haven't really done much of the research in that department yet, though, so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress (and a Triceratops Jedi named Thon)

VSBW notoriously uses buttfuck-long scaling chains in their profiles which usually have several dozen incestuous loops stretching across pages for certain series. It's really, really hard to actually find the feats being scaled off of because of the layers and layers of scaling you need to peel away like onion skin. But, in my research, I've found that approximately 50% of "Planetary Legends" comes from this one feat. The other 50% is Yarael Poof. That'll be elaborated on later.
So, what's the feat? Well, it's about what Wookieepedia dubs "the Devastation of Ambria." Ambria was once a mineral rich planet eyed by mining companies, but was eventually deserted. A Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress (RUSS, from here on out) came across the planet and decided to set up shop, creating a massive obelisk that she performed an ancient Sith ritual with. The ritual devastated the planet's landscape, warping it and killing the native creatures by the thousand.
Alright. Ignoring that this is - at best, being completely generous - only surface wiping, and not planetary as VSBW calls it, there's a fuckton of caveats around the feat. The obelisk that was presumably necessary for RUSS's ritual took centuries to build. This isn't something a Sith can just do on a whim. They need to spend hundreds of years building a fucking obelisk to do it. Not to mention, it requires a "complex ritual" that involves calling on a ton of Dark Side energy, presumably not all from RUSS herself. Oh yeah, and, RUSS died from doing this too. Let's not forget that, she was literally destroyed from doing this.
Palpatine could probably replicate this, yes, but only after building an obelisk and doing a complex ritual. In most matchups he probably won't have the time and materials to do that. I really don't consider it something you can just blindly scale him to - or any Force user, for that matter.
However, VSBW knows this, and has a defense for it. A Triceratops-looking Jedi named Thon was able to lock up all the Dark Side evil left behind on the planet in a lake called Natth. So, according to them, that makes Thon planetary, and thus everyone can scale to it.
However, Thon's cleanup took an unknown amount of time to do. Not to mention he didn't just like, absorb all the lingering evil over the surface of the planet into himself and jizz it out into a lake. He did it by fighting off the evil spirits living on the planet for a bit, then tricking them into drawing close and ensnaring them in a lattice of lightside energy. He also didn't even fix the entire place. To quote Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil, "the damage was too widespread for the world to ever be completely healed."
I think at that point it's not really something you can power scale off of. Saying Palpatine can casually destroy planets because a random Triceratops Jedi corralled most but not all of the lingering evil on a planet into a lake over an unknown amount of time by tricking Sith spirits is just like, come on dude, that's fucking dumb.
Also, I'd like to point out this is a pretty massive antifeat for the Dark Side, actually. Centuries of work and only a vague surface wiping feat to show for it? When you think every Force user is planetary like VSBW does, this is a pretty bad showing.

Jerec with the Valley of the Jedi

Jerec is a Miraluka Dark Jedi most famous for his appearance in Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, a classic game starring the fan favorite Kyle Katarn. The Valley of the Jedi is a location of great power that plays an important part in the plot of the game. According to Qu Rahn, a Jedi Master, if Jerec gets his hands on the power in the Valley of the Jedi, he'll be strong enough to trigger supernovas and wipe out entire star systems.
"Jerec, the man who murdered your father, is a great evil. He searches for the location of a sacred place, the Valley of the Jedi. The Force of thousands of Jedi is trapped here. If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought—the eradication of life from a star system in a whisper—will be within his power."
So, what exactly is the Valley of the Jedi? Well, the backstory is that there was a war between Jedi and Sith there that culminated in the use of an ancient ritual which killed thousands of Jedi and Sith alike and trapped their souls in the valley. A temple was built there and the place became an incredibly powerful Force nexus.
With all that laid out - remind me why VSBW says Palpatine should scale to this? It's a guy drawing power from the spirits of literally thousands of Force users. There's a ton of statements saying Palpatine is above all other Sith, but I don't really think that includes when they're being amped by the souls of countless other Force users. I feel this is pretty easy to throw out for that reason.
I've seen some reasoning tossed around to try and support this scaling. Namely, that it took the power of Every Jedi Literally Ever to keep Palpatine from rising as a spirit again and just taking some new body in the last Dark Empire series. Except, it really didn't? It took fucking Chex Quest here to put him down.
Read the scene for yourself. The wording here isn't "ugh, he's so powerful I need all the other Jedis help to keep him from rising again, Palpatine is literally stronger than every Jedi ever combined put together," it's "me, and the Force, and the other Jedi will keep him from reviving." The New Essential Chronology doesn't even bother to mention the other Jedi spirits, most sources give the credit to Chex Quest, and I think it's really sketchy to try and justify scaling Palpatine to a guy being amped by thousands of Force user spirits because his own spirit was pulled down by a Chex Quest guy and kept down with the assistance of other Jedi spirits and the Force itself too. We're getting into the same territory as Triceratops Jedi putting Sith spirits created by centuries of work in a lake here, there's just too much nonsense going on to get anything out of it.
Anyways, TL;DR: Palpatine shouldn't scale to this. I can buy him scaling off of other Sith Lords, but not when they're being empowered by literally thousands of other Force users.

Aleema Kato with the Sith Corsair

The Sith Corsair is a massive superweapon ship that can pull the core out of a star and blow them up outright, though seemingly though some sort of chain reaction. A Sith sorceress named Aleema Kato uses it in one comic, as well as a guy named Naga Sadow in another. It requires the manipulation of these special crystal things that just brim with Dark Side energy.
I don't really think Palpatine scales to Sith-created superweapons. Like, I don't really see why he would? The statements are that he's the most powerful Sith Lord, not the most powerful Sith Lord including Sith using superweapons. The power's coming from the weapon, not the Sith using it. It's a serious reach to try and say that, because a Sith made ship with special crystals in it exists that Palpatine can equal it in power.

Naga Sadow with the Sith Meditation Sphere

Another "person with the thing." Once again, I don't think you should scale Palpatine to Sith Lords using some piece of fucking equipment. When Legends writers type out "Palpatine is the strongestest Sith Lord in history!" I don't think they mean "Palpatine is the strongestest Sith Lord in history (including certain Sith Lords at the time they were tapping into large reserves of power that isn't theirs to begin with)!" I'm just repeating myself at this point, all this shit is the same kind of fake.
To get this over with, the Sith Meditation Sphere is an eyeball-shaped spaceship piloted by Sith Lord Naga Sadow. It's equipped with advanced Sith technology that amplifies Naga Sadow's Force abilities to an unknown extent, but seemingly pretty high given how they describe the technology as being developed and perfected over centuries and millenia.
Personally, I think the Sith Meditation Sphere amps Sadow a lot. Like, a lot a lot. With the Sphere, it's claimed Sadow can destroy stars. I don't really think Sadow is anywhere close to that alone, considering he uses the Force to pelt a guy with rocks in a fight to the death instead of just immediately turning him to red mist with his star level destructive power. Not to mention he had to use the above mentioned Sith Corsair to blow up a star at the end of The Fall of the Sith Empire comic series instead of his own power or anything. I'd also like to point out the Meditation Sphere being star-busting only comes from one guide which incorrectly recaps the comic it's trying to recap. In the comic, he uses the Sith Corsair to blow up a star, not the Meditation Sphere. Even ignoring that or calling it some kind of retcon, it still has the same problems.
So, yeah. Same justification as the last two, doesn't scale cause the feats are amped by a superweapon thing, and I don't think the "strongest Sith Lord" statements take into account Sith using a superweapon or drawing power from some outside source. I mean, Palpatine's certainly stronger than the guys with the dumb helmets turning dials and throwing switches on the Death Star, which can blow up planets, but nobody seriously uses that to scale him to planetary.
Huh, wait a minute. Three Sith in a row can't reach star level without some kind of massive amp or incredibly powerful tool. There's almost a pattern here... almost like, maybe these Sith guys can't blow up stars with their mind or something...

Wutzek and the World Razer

These two are different, but I'm lumping them together because the reasoning is the same. Wutzek is a weird Force being that appears in a total of one comic book (and a canceled novella). The World Razer is a weird Force being that appears in a total of one mission in an MMO (and a canceled novella).
I'll talk about Wutzek first. Basically, he shows up in one weird UK story of the classic Star Wars comics. He's introduced as a bunch of glowing lights encased in a glass thingy. According to this weirdo that captured the crew of the Falcon, he's a "demon, a Force creature of unimaginable power." It's believed his kind owned the universe long ago.
In the comic, there's a statement of Wutzek's power that puts him at like, planet or solar system. Though the most we see him do is incinerate some people and blow up a ship, then grow big and fly off.
Next up, World Razer. Almost is nothing is known about this guy, even in universe. Here's his codex entry from the Old Republic game.
"Almost nothing is known of the ancient being known as the World Razer. No one has seen or spoken to the creature for thousands of years; the Rakata’s cryptic warnings suggest the World Razer is Belsavis’s oldest prisoner, and that the prison was first constructed to hold the terrible entity whose hunger consumed a thousand worlds. According to the Rakata inscriptions in the Tomb, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue the World Razer, and an entire planet to contain its fury. If such a creature were ever released, its rage might very well shatter the galaxy."
Wow. "Shatter the galaxy?" Clearly this thing is galaxy level! Or... y'know, it's just fancy language describing how it could destroy the galaxy over a large span of time. That's at least the impression that I get from this one quote from the World Razer. Other in-game dialogue suggests the World Razer can destroy planets and stars as well.
Sidenote: There's an infamous speed calc made off this statement which assumes a literal timeframe of one day based on what this character says about it happening "tomorrow." The character uses the word "yesterday" in the same scene to talk about something that happened a while in the past, so it's probably not literally being used to refer to one day. Sometimes the word "tomorrow" is used to refer to just the future in general, y'know, like how sometimes Superman is called "the Man of Tomorrow." Or, "Tomorrowland." If you look on dictionary.com, it's literally the second definition of the word. God, I have to explain words now, fuck Star Wars wank dude this is what it does to you.
Moving on. Here's the thing about these guys: we know next to nothing about them. For fuck's sake, we don't even see the World Razer, even its in-game codex starts off with "almost nothing is known about this thing." In regards to the speed calc, we don't even know how it moves - for all we know it could warp itself places through hyperspace like the space whales from Rebels or some shit like that. Wutzek we know almost even less about, he's just apparently some Force demon from the beginning of the universe.
Why is Palpatine getting scaled to these things? They're incredibly vague, ancient powers that definitely seem to be above any Force user we've seen. Are we really getting to the point where we're saying the main villain of the franchise is equal in power to two incredibly vague characters with one appearance each, for the sole reason of "they exist in the same universe?" This is just so stupid, and in my opinion, not legitimate in the slightest.
About that canceled novella I mentioned: it confirms both of these guys as like, both being ancient Force gods. If the book was published, that'd be pretty solid evidence against Palpy scaling.

Darth Plagueis

Did you ever hear about the multi-continental feat of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. Because it's fake as shit.
This text comes from the Darth Plagueis novel I mentioned earlier:
Later it would be said by Naboo and Gungan alike that they couldn’t recall a colder winter than the one that followed Hego Damask’s autumnal visit to their world. The rivers and even the falls below Theed froze; the rolling plains and tall forests were blanketed three meters deep with snow; plasmic quakes rocked the Gallo Mountains and the Lake Country, the Holy Places and the undersea city of Otoh Gunga; and many of the egresses of the underwaterways that hollowed the planet were blocked by ice floes.
Basically, Plagueis goes to the planet Naboo, and afterwards they have a really bad winter. This has been calced by good ol' NarutoForums (the best site for VS debating) to say Plagueis can output 5.036 petatons of power!
The thing is, there's no evidence to suggest that Plagueis had any hand in this. Like, he's never given credit for the bad winter. It's just a thing that happens. Assuming he did it is like... really, really weird. He goes to other planets in the story and there's never a bad winter there after he comes. It's literally just some random bad weather, he didn't do shit, you people are desperate.

Darth Bane

This one isn't serious, I just wanted to share this cause I think it's really fucking funny.
One time when a VSBW person came on a server I was on, they were trying to argue planetary Star Wars with this. "Bane's world-crushing strategy!" Why are you so goddamn desperate? It's a fucking cropped book blurb or something, shut up. I don't know what this scan is particularly from, but its referring to something he's doing as a general, not Bane literally crushing a planet with the Force, Jesus Christ.
This is 90% of Legends wank, just nonsense taken out of context, then completely and almost willingly misinterpreted. I swear, there's a single shriveled-up little brain cell being passed around at VSBW like the Fates from Hercules.

Verdict: Either the feats are fake or he doesn't scale.

So, after all that, I bet you're wondering how strong Sidious actually is then. The answer is: fuck if I know. Do you know how many goddamn Legends books and comics there are that he's in? I didn't read that all for this thread, but I can tell you this: he sure as shit isn't planetary or fucking solar system level. If there was actually a single, solid planet busting feat for him, or any other Force user you can scale others to, you'd see it paraded around every versus forum until the heat death of the universe. But guess what? There isn't.
That's why you only ever see shit like Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress taking centuries to ruin a planet's surface or Yarael Poof and his non-feat being brought up. Speaking of that fucking long-necked bastard, I'm retconning this old post I made about him into the first episode of this series. Go read it if you're wondering about the infamous "Yarael Poof holding back a planetary explosion" feat, or re-read it if you want to see me address a defense I found, I added a new part to it.
Gotta say though, making this post kinda made me want to go through and make an actually comprehensive Legends Palpatine respect thread. The one on the Respect Threads subreddit is pretty laughable, since it's literally just a segment of the "Force powers" section of his Wookieepedia article with added commentary. All the other ones I can find are pretty dogshit too. So maybe I'll put that out sometime, I don't know.
Oh yeah, one last thing. If you're wondering about other characters you think Palpatine should scale to, like Legends Luke (everything you think you know about him is lies), Vitiate and Nihilus (explained above), and Abeloth (I haven't read any Abeloth stuff but it's probably all fake too, given Legends's track record), they're getting their own posts in the future. This post is specifically about Palpatine and C-list Sith stuff.
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https://preview.redd.it/xlem27d84ws51.jpg?width=318&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b8afd016c529bcc378758cdc7e9b3d713a47afb
submitted by IdolA13Octl1 to u/IdolA13Octl1 [link] [comments]

60,000 Deaths is Realistic; Recession Not Cancelled

This is a response to posts like these: https://www.reddit.com/wallstreetbets/comments/fyqgre/itll_soon_be_apparent_that_the_us_is_going_to/
https://www.reddit.com/wallstreetbets/comments/fx9y9b/im_down_550k_on_my_puts_heres_why_im_not_worried/
The central theses of the posts are that the IHME model is trash (it is), that the U.S. hasn't implemented the social distancing seen in Italy, Spain, and Wuhan (it hasn't), and that other models are predicting much worse outcomes (they are). Despite being right about the main points, these users are about to lose all their tendies because they have a false belief that because the IHME model is trash that the other models are much better. I have a background in consulting, which means I'm somewhat of an expert on selling broken models while pretending they work.
There are two central issues with all all of the epidemiological models
First off, it shouldn't be understated how terrible the IHME model is. It is not even an epidemiological model, it's simple curve fitting based on deaths. Many people thought that the IHME model was underpredicting deaths even when it predicted 200k, but prior to the latest revision it's consistently over-predicted deaths and hospital shortages in the U.S. and actually continues to do so now (by much less). The reason is that they fit Spain and Italy and...
Spain and Italy Have Lots of Corona
If you look at Covid19 Trackers, it shows the US as having 3x more cases than anybody else. We probably do have the most cases, or close to the most cases, but Spain and Italy are way closer than you might think. On March 30, ICL put out a report estimating the number of infections for each European Countries. They estimate on the March 28 that 15% of Spain was infected and 10% for Italy. That means there were over 6 million cases in both Italy and Spain at the end of last month. No wonder their hospital systems were past capacity. Italy and Spain basically only test old people, so even though the number of cases in the US and elsewhere are vastly underreported, it's actually much worse in Italy and Spain. This also means that models based on reported data from Italy and Spain are just as bad as models based on China, although in this case they are building in the medical system being overwhelmed. This is because testing is unreliable, so everybody relies on deaths, and Italy and Spain have amplified deaths rates due to being overwhelmed third world countries that are just letting older people die. Things aren't going to be this bad anywhere else in the world. They've literally managed to somehow be worse than Iran where the official advice was to oil up your buttholes.
Epidemiologists Can't Model Social Distancing
Just like the IHME model simply fits a curve to deaths and calls it a day; other standard models aren't much better. The vast majority of models simply assume that everybody has an equal chance of bumping into everybody else, which is why social distancing is so ineffective. The Chime Model out of UPenn has a single parameter for social contact and then just make up numbers for how much various things impact chance of contact. School Closings lower social contact by 4%, Closing all non-essential businesses by 8%. Do you really think you bump into new people 92% as much as before with non-essential businesses closed? The model used by the MN Department of Health also has a single parameter and decides that Social Distancing reduces contact by 50%, and shelter in place by 80%. The best model is the ICL Report, which has a contact matrix that says how often you bump into people of different age groups; but even then it's just a matrix where you have an equal chance of bumping into anybody's grandma. The model u/bonemaster5000 says they like? If you look at the methodology they simply say full paper coming soon, so we have no idea how they handle social distancing.
Now, I think that social distancing has been much more effective than epidemiologists have predicted. Why? Because you don't bump into other people randomly. You mostly see the same clusters of people every day, and while mild social distancing might only reduce your contact with other people by 20%, it probably reduces your contact with strangers by 90%. If you can stop the spread across different groups of people you'll dramatically reduce the spread.
If epidemiologists knew what they were talking about then they wouldn't have flip-flopped on masks (April 1 vs April 4), said that travel bans are a bad idea, wildly fluctuated in their death estimates, or said they need 30,000 ventilators less than a week before saying NVM 8,000 is enough. Don't bet your tendies on nerds drawing curves. That said, this virus isn't a hoax, it's just that it's hard to predict things that you can't rely on past data for. This is a novel virus with interventions implemented on a scale never seen before. You're flying by the seat of your pants on this pandemic and everything is going to be a guess at best.
That said, we know U.S. style social distancing is working because we're seeing the curve flatten in NY. I'm not sure if we'll see a big drop in deaths or not. There's a chance that big drop is from when the hospital system stops being overwhelmed, and if we weren't then we won't see one. But we are nearing the worst of it in the U.S., and that's not prediction that's data. Once the data becomes available, always trust it over predictions (except if it's Chinese data).
Why We're Still In Trouble
This blog post by an Economists at Chicago Booth basically sums up why the U.S. is still screwed. The U.S. got lucky that we're not all dying in hallways like the Italians. We had no testing so we had no idea how far progressed this virus was. It turns out we implemented social distancing early enough that things aren't going to get truly apocalyptic. That said, we've still destroyed our economy, while somehow considering 60-80k deaths from the first wave a success.
The same governmental incompetence behind a lack of testing? That's still there. Good luck opening up. There's no way we can implement the test-trace-isolate type programs in Singapore. Which just had to implement a full lockdown despite having those measures. Singapore is also currently hotter and more humid than most of the U.S. gets all summer, so don't count on the virus disappearing by itself either.
When Fauci says things are back to normal by November, he's straight up lying to you the same as Trump did for opening up by Easter. Everybody studying this virus knows that this isn't just goingaway. Come November we'll just be getting out of full lockdown #2. The market is pricing in things starting to go back to normal after we open up. Morningstar thinks Disney Parks will open in June. Bad news. After we open up, we're simply back where we were in January. Most pandemics come in waves, the second wave of the Spanish flu was the most deadly. There are things that help, but it's looking more and more like a miracle treatment isn't coming; otherwise we would know by now.
The first wave of the pandemic and unemployment are fully priced in now. The next play is the failure to open up. I'm not sure if the drop will come when they admit we can't go back to normal in mid-May or when we do go back to normal in mid-May and then see a spike in June and July. Nobody knows, which is why it's still not priced in yet. Definitely, by September it will be clear the U.S. is in big trouble.
TLDR
Pandemic priced in. Incompetence in reopening the economy probably not.
06/19 SPY 220 puts
01/15/2021 SPY 180 puts
(Calendar Spreads or Debit Spreads on both of these to lower your cost basis and avoid getting screwed by Theta Gang).
submitted by udinknowme to wallstreetbets [link] [comments]

Weekly FIREUK Blog posts

UK FI blogger posts from the last 7 days
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Moneze Sat, 22 Aug 2020 How to Budget in Excel – How I saved 70% of Income 1
Monevator Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Weekend reading: Summertime, and the living is ... 3
7 Circles Fri, 21 Aug 2020 The DIY Financial Advisor – The Lessons 4
Gentleman's Family Finances Fri, 21 Aug 2020 VCTs for Financial Independence Part 4 – my own... 3
MoneyGrower Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Stick To Your Plan 2
The Prudent Programmer Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Interest only mortgages, what’s the point? 1
Much More With Less Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Frugal financial admin this week 1
South Wales FI Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Why does F.I.R.E get such bad press? 1
The All Round Investor Fri, 21 Aug 2020 The 7 benefits of regular exercise 2
averagemoneyman Fri, 21 Aug 2020 Why I Try To Avoid Direct Debits 1
Banker on FIRE Fri, 21 Aug 2020 The Most Important Number In Real Estate Investing 2
Shifting Shares Thu, 20 Aug 2020 Spread Betting Explained: What is Spread Bettin... 1
Simple Living In Somerset Thu, 20 Aug 2020 winter is coming 1
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Disease called Debt Thu, 20 Aug 2020 5 Simple Ways to Save Money 2
The Young Money Blog Thu, 20 Aug 2020 Top student money tips: Iona’s Natwest livestream 3
Tuppennys Fireplace Wed, 19 Aug 2020 Why You Need To Pay Yourself First If You Want ... 4
Fire And Wide Wed, 19 Aug 2020 Travel During The Covid Pandemic: Our Experience 1
{ in·deed·a·bly } Tue, 18 Aug 2020 Heatwave 1
Hustle Escape Tue, 18 Aug 2020 Book Summary: The Algebra of Happiness by Scott... 2
Money For The Modern Girl Tue, 18 Aug 2020 I left my job during a pandemic 1
Sparkle Bee's Journey to FI Mon, 17 Aug 2020 Working on myself 1
The Frugal Cottage Mon, 17 Aug 2020 UK Recession 2020 – What It Means For You 1
Sassenach Saving Sun, 16 Aug 2020 My Very Meandering Road To FIRE 1
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The FI Fox Sun, 16 Aug 2020 How much does it cost to run a household? 1
The Escape Artist Sun, 16 Aug 2020 Price is what you pay, value is what you get 1
A Simple Life Sat, 15 Aug 2020 July Review 1
Playing with Fire Sat, 15 Aug 2020 Investing a Lump Sum Redundancy Payout 1
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Lemonade Budget Fri, 14 Aug 2020 9 Buy To Let Tips For New Investors 1
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Order 66 draft

Star Wars is easily the worst franchise to talk about on WhoWouldWin by far. At least with Naruto or Dragon Ball Z or One Punch Man there's some difference in the comments once in a while. But literally, and I mean literally, the replies of every single Star Wars thread, no matter the character, no matter the matchup, are exactly the same every single time without fail.
Here's every Star Wars thread on WhoWouldWin ever:
Star Wars character vs. other character
Round 1: Canon
Round 2: Legends
Top comment with 3k+ upvotes: Star Wars character loses round 1, but in round 2 they absolutely godstomp 10/10 times they speedblitz the other character at FTL speeds and slash them seventeen thousand times in an attosecond with their lightsaber, or they use their Planetary+++ Force abilities to choke the other person to death and while they're choking them they stab them, or they make their heart stop or rip their organs out their chest with the Force in a microsecond. The other character literally can't even hit them because they're FTL and have nanosecond level precog that lets them avoid every hit ever. Palpatine can destroy planets Obi-Wan can open black holes with his mind Luke is literally a Force God who can annihilate half the galaxy with a blink LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO!!!
Reply to that comment with 500+ upvotes: Yeah bro, this is kind of a complete and total godstomp, don't know why OP bothered posting it lol legends always wins LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO!!!
Reply to first comment, score below threshold, hidden: Um, scans?
Now, for all you people unfamiliar with Star Wars, you're probably wondering what "Legends" is. Legends is simply the official term used to refer to the old Expanded Universe content made for Star Wars, so books, comics, anything other than the movies pretty much. After buying Star Wars, Disney went and made the majority of the Expanded Universe part of its own separate non-canon continuity, meaning there's two versions of most Star Wars characters: Canon and Legends. "Star Wars Legends," or just "Legends" is used to refer to the Legends continuity as a whole.
Legends, and I'm brave enough to say this, is the single most wanked series in battleboarding history. The way people talk about it, you'd think every book is a non-stop balls to the wall orgy of FTL and planet-busting feats. It's to the point where you don't have to link any scans or post any clips: just saying the words "LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO" is a bulletproof argument in and of itself.
But is Legends crazy, bro?
The answer is: It's fake. All of it. The feats, the preconceptions... it's all fake.
I can't fucking stand Legends wank, mostly because it kills all discussion of Star Wars on versus sites. I like Star Wars quite a bit, and I'd like to see some intelligent discussion of it in my dumb, pointless hobby. But every attempt at a Star Wars thread is drowned out by the incessant drum of LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! LEGENDS IS CRAZY BRO! It fucking haunts me, I close my eyes and instead of black it's just the Obi-Wan VS Kakashi Death Battle on loop.
At the suggestion of my therapist, I'm fighting back. This is the beginning of a series of posts where I'm going to be debunking Legends wank I find on sites like VSBW. I decided to start with Palpatine because he's personally the character I see getting the most of it. And besides, this is gonna be like my own personal Order 66 on Legends wank. So I can't really think of anyone else who could be more appropriate.
Onto the debunking:

The Claim: Palpatine can make planet-destroying Force Storms on a whim.

When someone mentions planet-busting Palpatine on WhoWouldWin, nine times out of ten this is what they're talking about. You usually don't get links for Legends claims, but for the power of the Force Storm ability, I usually see this one posted when its brought up. It's from a book called The Jedi Path, which is supposed to be an in-universe Jedi manual complete with notations from the characters who owned it. So the quote from Luke - "it has the power to kill worlds" - is an in-universe statement of power.
So, what's Force Storm? Basically its an ability where a hyperspace wormhole is opened using the Force. It can be used to transport people across the galaxy and destroy things, which yes, includes planets according to The Jedi Path. It's a not very commonly seen Force power, first appearing in the Dark Empire comics. Palpatine creates one and uses it to do some major damage to Coruscant and the New Republic fleet. However, he ends up killing himself with the storm accidentally after Luke and Leia interrupt his connection to it.
Palpatine can create Force Storms, Force Storms can destroy planets. So Palpatine's planetary. Seems pretty clean cut, right?
Except, he can't create Force Storms. At least according to Tom Veitch, author of Dark Empire (which had the first appearance of the power). Third line. If you want to read the full 2016 interview, here it is. It's translated from Spanish, but the translation is very direct, at least for the relevant section.
Yep, apparently Force Storms are "in fact a phenomenon that occurs rarely, when the minds of two great Force users meet and struggle with each other at a distance." Straight from the mouth of God, Palpatine can't make them of his own will.
There's probably arguments you could make that he could, like Palpatine claiming he can create them of his own will in-story, but that same scan mentions him lying about how much control he has over the power, so I don't really buy his word. Some roleplaying guidebooks give him the power in his list of abilities (like if you want to play as him in the game or use him as an enemy) but I feel like that's too tertiary to count. And really, it kinda makes sense he can't really pull them out all the time when you think about it. There's two sequels to Dark Empire where he's reborn again in clone bodies, and in none of the sequels does he try to use a Force Storm. Even though it would come in handy, like, a lot.
In any case, if you're arguing Palpatine can make Force Storms, you're arguing against the guy that created Force Storms to begin with. I think he'd know how they work.

Verdict: No, he can't.

The Claim: Palpatine is a SOLAR SYSTEM BUSTER!

This next thing I'm talking about comes from a novel called Darth Plagueis. If you have a friend who's into Legends, this is the book he wont shut up about.
Basically, the prologue has a highly poetically worded scene describing Palpatine's feelings after killing his master Plagueis. Some of it has been misinterpreted as like, actually happening in the context of the story, which it isn't.
Here's the relevant text taken from the book. Sorry, Pastebin's being a little fucky at the moment, so I had to fudge with the lines to make this readable. If you try to copy-paste from this, it's weird.
I don't really know what else to say here, it's just... not actually happening. It's just a flowery description of how Palpatine feels, it's not literally going on. This was spread on VSBW as proof of Palpatine being planet/stasolar system level, I'm assuming because of these parts:
A tremor took hold of the planet.
Sprung from death, it unleashed itself in a powerful wave, at once burrowing deep into the world’s core and radiating through its saccharine atmosphere to shake the stars themselves. At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.
A welter of voices, near and far, present and from eons past, drowned his thoughts. Raised in praise, the voices proclaimed his reign and cheered the inauguration of a new order. Yellow eyes lifted to the night sky, he saw the trembling stars flare, and in the depth of his being he felt the power of the dark side anoint him.
Slowly, almost reluctantly, he came back to himself, his gaze settling on his manicured hands. Returned to the present, he took note of his rapid breathing, while behind him the room labored to restore order.
And...
His eyes sought and found an ascending constellation of stars, one of power and consequence new to the sky, though soon to be overwhelmed by dawn’s first light. Low in the sky over the flatlands, visible only to those who knew where and how to look, it ushered in a bold future. To some the stars and planets might seem to be moving as ever, destined to align in configurations calculated long before their fiery births. But in fact the heavens had been perturbed, tugged by dark matter into novel alignments. In his mouth, Sidious tasted the tang of blood; in his chest, he felt the monster rising, emerging from shadowy depths and contorting his aspect into something fearsome just short of revealing itself to the world.
Yeah, this is just... again, it's not actually happening. I could go on and say what each line represents about what Palpatine's currently feeling and how its clearly just a reflection of his emotions, but I don't have to. All I have to do is flip over to the last chapter of the book, which describes the same scene with a whole lot less flair. For anyone who wants to make the argument that at least the quake happened because the text I linked mentions overturned furniture, it was overturned in the fight between Palpatine and Plagueis. Not by any Force earthquake.
So, yeah. It's just in Palpy's head after he kills his master. Not literal.

Verdict: No he isn't, learn reading comprehension.

The Claim: Palpatine is 34 thousand times faster than the speed of light.

Of all the Star Wars stats, speed is the fuckiest of all. That's because the main projectile of the series, blaster bolts, are incredibly vague in terms of speed. The movies usually show them as like, Nerf dart to baseball speed, while the novels go as high as calling them lightspeed (they're obviously not, but that's for another post). Since pretty much all speed feats that would involve gunfire in other series instead involve blaster fire, it makes things really annoying to pin down, as well as open to dipshit amounts of wank.
If you open up Palpatine's VSBW page, he's given a speed ranking of "MFTL+," thanks to incestuous scaling, taking blaster bolts as lightspeed due to like 7 dubious statements across 381 books, and a calc of the time his Sith spirit moved across the galaxy to inhabit a new clone body. The calc specifically puts him at 34,292c, or over 34 thousand times faster than the speed of light.
Star Wars characters are fast, guise!
Alright, let me try to explain why this is dumb. First off, why would the speed of Palpatine's spirit be equal to his speed in a mortal body? It's not like he can like, fucking fly through space like his spirit presumably can. I'm also going to guess his spirit weighs less, but, that's straying into dumb territory. To summarize this point: I don't see why Palpatine would be as fast as his disembodied consciousness, and I think it's kinda weird and dumb to assume so.
Second off, here's a few lines of text I want to take a closer look at.
He had spent over a year disembodied, formless, drifting through the maddening void of the Dark Side. He had never foreseen having to transport his spirit so far across space. He had nearly dispersed forever, but he had survived, and now need never fear death again. (Dark Empire Sourcebook)
According to the Dark Empire Sourcebook, Palpatine traveled "through the maddening void of the Dark Side." Sounds a little different than traveling through actual space.
But in that moment, when flashing blue energy rushed from exploded flesh, the Emperor entered a bodiless transitional state. As conscious Dark Force he was translated across the Galaxy... (Dark Empire Endnotes)
According to the Dark Empire Endnotes, he was "translated across the galaxy" as "conscious Dark Force," which again, sounds a little different from traveling the distance in real space as a ghost.
PALPATINE: They had years to reclaim the galaxy, while my discorporate mind drifted across the empty reaches of space, to return to this cloning chamber. I spent five years in hiding, while your friends tried to fufill their dream. (Dark Empire audio play adaptation)
And finally, though this is kinda lesser, the audio play and the sourcebook together say that it took more than a year for Palpatine to reawaken as a clone, which goes against the timeframe of one year used in the calc.
Personally, I think there is far too much weirdness around this "feat" to count it as some sort of actual indication of Palpatine's speed. Force users generally don't seem this fast in the majority of Star Wars media anyway.

Verdict: No.

The Claim: Palpatine scales to other Sith Lords who have CRAZY feats, bro!!1!!!

So, Palpy can't summon planet-destroying Force Storms, rearrange stars with his own power, or move faster than the speed of light. But, I hear the people scream, what about scaling!?! Palpatine is routinely called the strongest Dark Side user in history, so he should scale to all previous Sith Lords and such, right?
I can actually buy that, yes. There's tons of statements backing up Sheev as pretty much the ultimate Dark Side user, so I think it's reasonable enough to assume he can match his predecessors. So, lets look at all the high end Dark Side stuff I could dig up, and why it's all either fake or not really something you should scale Sidious to. Most of this stuff I found on VSBW. I might be missing one or two things, but honestly, they're probably just fake as well.
If you're wondering about the absence of Vitiate and Nihilus, keep in mind this is going to be a multi-post series, and I'm thinking KOTOR will just get its entire own post. That being said, most of Vitiate's stuff is rituals, which I think Palpatine could replicate but wouldn't really be able to in a standard matchup, and I think Nihilus's status as a wound in the Force explains his unique attributes, and as such I'm not really sure if Palpatine could replicate the things he does. I haven't really done much of the research in that department yet, though, so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress (and a Triceratops Jedi named Thon)

VSBW notoriously uses buttfuck-long scaling chains in their profiles which usually have several dozen incestuous loops stretching across pages for certain series. It's really, really hard to actually find the feats being scaled off of because of the layers and layers of scaling you need to peel away like onion skin. But, in my research, I've found that approximately 50% of "Planetary Legends" comes from this one feat. The other 50% is Yarael Poof, if you're curious. That'll be elaborated on later.
So, what's the feat? Well, it's about what Wookieepedia dubs "the Devastation of Ambria." Ambria was once a mineral rich planet eyed by mining companies, but was eventually deserted. A Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress (RUSS, from here on out) came across the planet and decided to set up shop, creating a massive obelisk that she performed an ancient Sith ritual with. The ritual devastated the planet's landscape, warping it and killing the native creatures by the thousand.
Alright. Ignoring that this is - at best, being completely generous - only surface wiping, and not planetary as VSBW calls it, there's a fuckton of caveats around the feat. The obelisk that was presumably necessary for RUSS's ritual took centuries to build. This isn't something a Sith can just do on a whim. They need to spend hundreds of years building a fucking obelisk to do it. Not to mention, it requires a "complex ritual" that involves calling on a ton of Dark Side energy, presumably not all from RUSS herself. Oh yeah, and, RUSS died from doing this too. Let's not forget that, she was literally destroyed from doing this.
Palpatine could probably replicate this, yes, but only after building an obelisk and doing a complex ritual. In most matchups he probably wont have the time and materials to do that. I really don't consider it something you can just blindly scale him to - or any Force user, for that matter.
However, VSBW knows this, and has a defense for it. A Triceratops-looking Jedi named Thon was able to lock up all the Dark Side evil left behind on the planet in a lake called Natth. So, according to them, that makes Thon planetary, and thus everyone can scale to it.
However, Thon's cleanup took an unknown amount of time to do. Not to mention he didn't just like, absorb all the lingering evil over the surface of the planet into himself and jizz it out into a lake. He did it by fighting off the evil spirits living on the planet for a bit, then tricking them into drawing close and ensnaring them in a lattice of lightside energy. He also didn't even fix the entire place. To quote Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil, "the damage was too widespread for the world to ever be completely healed."
I think at that point it's not really something you can power scale off of. Saying Palpatine can casually destroy planets because a random Triceratops Jedi corralled most but not all of the lingering evil on a planet into a lake over an unknown amount of time by tricking Sith spirits is just like, come on dude, that's fucking dumb.
Also, I'd like to point out this is a pretty massive antifeat for the Dark Side, actually. Centuries of work and only a vague surface wiping feat to show for it? When you think every Force user is planetary like VSBW does,

Jerec with the Valley of the Jedi

Jerec is a Mirulaka Dark Jedi most famous for his appearance in Star Wars: Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II, a classic game starring the fan favorite Kyle Katarn. The Valley of the Jedi is a location of great power that plays an important part in the plot of the game. According to Qu Rahn, a Jedi Master, if Jerec gets his hands on the power in the Valley of the Jedi, he'll be strong enough to trigger supernovas and wipe out entire star systems.
"Jerec, the man who murdered your father, is a great evil. He searches for the location of a sacred place, the Valley of the Jedi. The Force of thousands of Jedi is trapped here. If Jerec captures this power, he will be a creature such as the universe has never seen. A supernova of stars in a fleeting thought—the eradication of life from a star system in a whisper—will be within his power."
So, what exactly is the Valley of the Jedi? Well, the backstory is that there was a war between Jedi and Sith there that culminated in the use of an ancient ritual which killed thousands of Jedi and Sith alike and trapped their souls in the valley. A temple was built there and the place became an incredibly powerful Force nexus.
With all that laid out - remind me why VSBW says Palpatine should scale to this? It's a guy drawing power from the spirits of literally thousands of Force users. There's a ton of statements saying Palpatine is above all other Sith, but I don't really think that includes when they're being amped by the souls of countless other Force users. I feel this is pretty easy to throw out for that reason.
I've seen some reasoning tossed around to try and support this scaling. Namely, that it took the power of Every Jedi Literally Ever to keep Palpatine from rising as a spirit again and just taking some new body in the last Dark Empire series. Except, it really didn't? It took fucking Chex Quest here to put him down.
Read the scene for yourself. The wording here isn't "ugh, he's so powerful I need all the other Jedis help to keep him from rising again, Palpatine is literally stronger than every Jedi ever combined put together," it's "me, and the Force, and the other Jedi will keep him from reviving." The New Essential Chronology doesn't even bother to mention the other Jedi spirits, and I think it's really sketchy to try and justify scaling Palpatine to a guy being amped by thousands of Force user spirits because his own spirit was pulled down by a Chex Quest guy and kept down with the assistance of other Jedi spirits and the Force itself too. We're getting into the same territory as Triceratops Jedi putting Sith spirits created by centuries of work in a lake here, there's just too much nonsense going on to get anything out of it.
Anyways, TL;DR: Palpatine shouldn't scale to this. I can buy him scaling off of other Sith Lords, but not when they're being empowered by literally thousands of other Force users.

Aleema Kato with the Sith Corsair

The Sith Corsair is a massive superweapon ship that can pull the core out of a star and blow them up outright, though seemingly though some sort of chain reaction. A Sith sorceress named Aleema Kato uses it in one comic, as well as a guy named Naga Sadow in another. It requires the manipulation of these special crystal things that just brim with Dark Side energy.
I don't really think Palpatine scales to Sith-created superweapons. Like, I don't really see why he would? The statements are that he's the most powerful Sith Lord, not the most powerful Sith Lord including Sith using superweapons. The power's coming from the weapon, not the Sith using it. It's a serious reach to try and say that, because a Sith made ship with special crystals in it exists that Palpatine can equal it in power.

Naga Sadow with the Sith Meditation Sphere

Another "person with the thing." Once again, I don't think you should scale Palpatine to Sith Lords using some piece of fucking equipment. When Legends writers type out "Palpatine is the strongestest Sith Lord in history!" I don't think they mean "Palpatine is the strongestest Sith Lord in history (including certain Sith Lords at the time they were tapping into large reserves of power that isn't theirs to begin with)!" I'm just repeating myself at this point, all this shit is the same kind of fake.
To get this over with, the Sith Meditation Sphere is an eyeball-shaped spaceship piloted by Sith Lord Naga Sadow. It's equipped with advanced Sith technology that amplifies Naga Sadow's Force abilities to an unknown extent, but seemingly pretty high given how they describe the technology as being developed and perfected over centuries and millenia.
Personally, I think the Sith Meditation Sphere amps Sadow a lot. Like, a lot a lot. With the Sphere, it's claimed Sadow can destroy stars. I don't really Sadow is anywhere close to that alone, considering he uses the Force to pelt a guy with rocks in a fight to the death instead of just immediately turning him to red mist with his star level destructive power. Not to mention he had to use the above mentioned Sith Corsair to blow up a star at the end of The Fall of the Sith Empire comic series instead of his own power or anything.
So, yeah. Same justification as the last two, doesn't scale cause the feats are amped by a superweapon thing, and I don't think the "strongest Sith Lord" statements take into account Sith using a superweapon or drawing power from some outside source. I mean, Palpatine's certainly stronger than the guys with the dumb helmets turning dials and throwing switches on the Death Star, which can blow up planets, but nobody seriously uses that to scale him to planetary.
Huh, wait a minute. Three Sith in a row can't reach star level without some kind of massive amp or incredibly powerful tool. There's almost a pattern here... almost like, maybe these Sith guys can't blow up stars with their mind or something...

Wutzek and the World Razer

These two are different, but I'm lumping them together because the reasoning is the same. Wutzek is a weird Force being that appears in a total of one comic book (and a canceled novella). The World Razer is a weird Force being that appears in a total of one mission in an MMO (and a canceled novella).
I'll talk about Wutzek first. Basically, he shows up in one weird UK story of the classic Star Wars comics. He's introduced as a bunch of glowing lights encased in a glass thingy. According to this weirdo that captured the crew of the Falcon, he's a "demon, a Force creature of unimaginable power." It's believed his kind owned the universe long ago.
In the comic, there's a statement of Wutzek's power that puts him at like, planet or solar system. Though the most we see him do is incinerate some people and blow up a ship, then grow big and fly off.
Next up, World Razer. Almost is nothing is known about this guy, even in universe. Here's his codex entry from the Old Republic game.
"Almost nothing is known of the ancient being known as the World Razer. No one has seen or spoken to the creature for thousands of years; the Rakata’s cryptic warnings suggest the World Razer is Belsavis’s oldest prisoner, and that the prison was first constructed to hold the terrible entity whose hunger consumed a thousand worlds. According to the Rakata inscriptions in the Tomb, it took the combined might of the Infinite Empire to subdue the World Razer, and an entire planet to contain its fury. If such a creature were ever released, its rage might very well shatter the galaxy."
Wow. "Shatter the galaxy?" Clearly this thing is galaxy level! Or... y'know, it's just fancy language describing how it could destroy the galaxy over a large span of time. That's at least the impression that I get from this one quote from the World Razer. Other in-game dialogue suggests the World Razer can destroy planets and stars as well.
Sidenote: There's an infamous speed calc made off this statement which assumes a literal timeframe of one day based on what this character says about it happening "tomorrow." The character uses the word "yesterday" in the same scene to talk about something that happened a while in the past, so it's probably not literally being used to refer to one day. Sometimes the word "tomorrow" is used to refer to just the future in general, y'know, like how sometimes Superman is called "the Man of Tomorrow." Or, "Tomorrowland." If you look on dictionary.com, it's literally the second definition of the word. God, I have to explain words now, fuck Star Wars wank dude this is what it does to you.
Moving on. Here's the thing about these guys: we know next to nothing about them. For fuck's sake, we don't even see the World Razer, even its in-game codex starts off with "almost nothing is known about this thing." Wutzek we know almost even less about, he's just apparently some Force demon from the beginning of the universe.
Why is Palpatine getting scaled to these things? They're incredibly vague, ancient powers that definitely seem to be above any Force user we've seen. Are we really getting to the point where we're saying the main villain of the franchise is equal in power to two incredibly vague characters with one appearance each, for the sole reason of "they exist in the same universe?" This is just so stupid, and in my opinion, not legitimate in the slightest.
About that canceled novella I mentioned: it confirms both of these guys as like, both being ancient Force gods. If the book was published, that'd be pretty solid evidence against Palpy scaling.

Darth Bane

This one isn't serious, I just wanted to share this cause I think it's really fucking funny.
One time when a VSBW person came on a server I was on, they were trying to argue planetary Star Wars with this. "Bane's world-crushing strategy!" Why are you so goddamn desperate? It's a fucking cropped book blurb or something, shut up. I don't know what this scan is particularly from, but its referring to something he's doing as a general, not Bane literally crushing a planet with the Force, Jesus Christ.
This is 90% of Legends wank, just nonsense taken out of context, then completely and almost willingly misinterpreted. I swear, there's a single shriveled-up little brain cell being passed around at VSBW like the Fates from Hercules.

Verdict: Either the feats are fake or he doesn't scale.

So, after all that, I bet you're wondering how strong Sidious actually is then. The answer is: fuck if I know. Do you know how many goddamn Legends books and comics there are that he's in? I didn't read that all for this thread, but I can tell you this: he sure as shit isn't planetary or fucking solar system level. If there was actually a single, solid planet busting feat for him, or any other Force user you can scale others to, you'd see it paraded around every versus forum until the heat death of the universe. But guess what? There isn't.
That's why you only ever see shit like Random Unnamed Sith Sorceress taking centuries to ruin a planet's surface or Yarael Poof and his non-feat being brought up. Speaking of that fucking long-necked bastard, I'm retconning this old post I made about him into the first episode of this series. Go read it if you're wondering about the infamous "Yarael Poof holding back a planetary explosion" feat, or re-read it if you want to see me address a defense I found, I added a new part to it.
Gotta say though, making this post kinda made me want to go through and make an actually comprehensive Legends Palpatine respect thread. The one on the Respect Threads subreddit is pretty laughable, since it's literally just a segment of the "Force powers" section of his Wookieepedia article with added commentary. All the other ones I can find are pretty dogshit too. So maybe I'll put that out sometime, I don't know.
Oh yeah, one last thing. If you're wondering about other characters you think Palpatine should scale to, like Legends Luke (everything you think you know about him is lies), Vitiate and Nihilus (explained above), and Abeloth (I haven't read any Abeloth stuff but it's probably all fake too), they're getting their own posts in the future. This post is specifically about Palpatine and C-list Sith stuff.
submitted by 76SUP to 76RespectThreads [link] [comments]

Mega-List: Israel's Crimes and Controversies

Updated on 16 Sept 2020, Arranged in Chronological Order
All articles cited are from reliable and trustworthy sources (some may be NSFL):
Use this website to read any paywalled site you might encounter in this list.
Major Incidents:
ONE. Assasination of Jacob Israël de Haan (1924), a Dutch-Jewish diplomat, for attempting to make a peace deal with the Emir of Mecca - his plan was a Palestinian state in a Jordanian federation, the Zionists would drop the Balfour declaration and any claim to a state in exchange for unrestricted immigration. He was assassinated when leaving a synagogue by Avraham Tehomi (who admitted to it much later), on the orders of Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, who later became the 2nd President of Israel:
Wiki, Haaretz, 972mag
TWO. King David Hotel Bombing (1946) where right-wing Zionist terrorists attacked a British HQ located within the hotel killing 91 and injuring 46. The leader of the perpetrators, Manachem Begin became the Prime Minister of Israel in 1977:
Wiki, Haaretz
THREE. Deir Yassin Massacre (1948) where 110 villagers were slaughtered, some members of the perpetrators were at a later time, absorbed into the IDF, one even became PM of Israel:
Wiki, Haaretz, Britannica
FOUR. Document from IDF archives (1948) which after translation states:
"In the villages lying between Nahraiya and Tarshiha there are no foreign troops for the time being.The villages are armed and ready for action1. Your orders are to occupy, kill the men2, destroy and burn down the villages of Kabri, Umm al-Faraj and al-Nahr."
[1] Ilan Pappe notes that the villagers had no proper arms, only for hunting purposes and people who served in the police; without Arab troops that were absent they stood no chance [2] In April 1948, the Intelligence of the Hagana defined men as anyone above the age of 10
Sources:
-Photo taken from IDF Archives 1676\51\12
-Benny Morris, The Birth of the Palestinian refugee problem, 1947-1949, ISBN 0-521-33028-9. P. 133
-Hagana archives, 100\35, dated May 19, 1948
FIVE. Palestinian Exodus "Nakba" (1948) was an expulsion of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs from their Homeland during the war and establishment of Israel in May 1948, these includes testimonies of massacres, rape and looting. During and immediately following the state’s creation, Israel expropriated approximately 4,244,776 acres of Palestinian land.
Haaretz, Haaretz, Atlantic, Vox, TheWallsOfJerusalem
SIX. Assassination of Folke Bernadotte, (1948) UN Mediator for Palestinian Refugees by Israel's Zionist Paramilitary Group, Lehi. The killing was approved by the three-man 'center' of Lehi, one of which, after the assassination, became 7th Prime Minister of Israel (Yitzhak Shamir). No one was convicted for the assassination:
Wiki, Independent, Haaretz, WRMEA
SEVEN. Lavon Affair (1954) a failed false flag operation where Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli Military Intelligence to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American, and British-owned civilian targets, their foiled plan was to blame the attacks on the Muslim Brotherhood:
Haaretz, TimesofIsrael, Wiki
EIGHT. Kafr Qasim Massacre (1956) where Israeli Border Police killed 49 Arabs (19 men, 6 women, 23 children, 1 unborn child) returning home from work during a curfew they were unaware of. Those involved in the massacre were found guilty but were pardoned and released from prison in a single year. The highest ranking official prosecuted for the massacre confessed before his death, that the massacre were planned to ethnically cleanse Israeli Arabs from the region, and that his trial was staged to protect Israeli political and military elites, including Prime Minister Ben Gurion, from taking responsibility for the massacre:
Wiki, Haaretz, 972mag, Medium
NINE. Apollo Affair (1965) an incident where 200-600 pounds of highly enriched uranium disappeared from a Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Highly suspected to have gone to Israel's Nuclear Program particularly given the visit of Rafi Eitan who was under the guise of a chemist but later revealed as an Israeli spy and who was later involved in the Jonathan Pollard incident:
Wiki, LATimes, Mondoweiss,
Archive of the findings of Roger Mattson, a Physicist who investigated the Incident for the Nuclear Regulatory Commision,
YouTube, 1968 FBI Report, FBI's Declassified Memo PDF
TEN. USS Liberty (1967) where Israel deliberately attacked an American Cargo Vessel killing 34 without any repurcussions:
YouTube, Haaretz, Wiki
ELEVEN. Sabra & Shatila massacre (1982), perpetrated by a Lebanese Christian militia (Phalangists), which was under the political and military control of Israel. For 3 days, they engaged in rape, murder and mutilation w the knowledge of IDF troops surrounding the refugee camps. Israeli forces fired flares into the night sky to illuminate the darkness for the Phalangists, allowed reinforcements to enter the area on the 2nd day of the massacre, and provided bulldozers that were used to dispose of the bodies of many victims. Estimated death count: 2000 - 3500. Ariel Sharon was held responsible for the Massacre, but he was still voted as PM of Israel in 2001:
SciencesPo, TRTworld, AJ, IMEU
TWELVE. Operation Trojan (1986) according to ex-Mossad agent in his book, Mossad instigated the US bombing of Libya by planting a transmission device and impersonating as the Libyan Govt sending terrorist orders to its embassies around the world. (Story in Page 113-117) (Downloadable PDF File):
Other Side of Deception PDF
THIRTEEN. Cave of Patriarchs Massacre (1994) Israeli Settler Baruch Goldstein opened fire in Ibrahimi Mosque, killing 29 worshippers and wounding more than 125:
Wiki, JPost
FOURTEEN. Qana Massacre (1996) IDF fired artillery shells at a UN Compound where 800 Lebanese civillians were taking refuge. 106 civillians were killed, 116 injured, 4 Fiji UN forces were also seriously injured:
Wiki, AlAraby, Independent, DailyMotion
FIFTEEN. 2nd Qana Massacre (2006) air-strike carried out by IDF on a building Lebanon during the war. 28 civillians were killed out of which 16 were children. Upon investigation, IDF concluded that there was in fact no rocket launched from Qana on the day of the deadly strike by IDF:
Wiki, BBC, Norman Finkelstein
SIXTEEN. Israeli Mossad posed as CIA agents to recruit terrorists to carry out False Flag Operations against Iran (2007-2008)
Haaretz, ForeignPolicy
SEVENTEEN. Four Iranian nuclear scientists were assassinated and another was seriously wounded in an attempted murder between (2010-2012). US officials confirm that Terror Group, MEK was financed, trained, and armed by Israel in killing the nuclear scientists:
NBC, Guardian, Guardian
Sidenote
What is Zionism?
YouTube
Palestine before Zionism (Pre-1948):
Youtube (1896)
Youtube (1900s)
Youtube (1930s)
Youtube (1946 - Arrival of Illegal Zionist Immigrants)
Divide & Conquer: An interactive map explaining the Israel divide and control of Palestinian Land (2019):
Interactive Map
JIDF: Israeli Government is paying and giving away scholarships to students who fight internet battles and spread propaganda (2013):
BBC, USAToday, Huffington Post
Israel's JIDF Hasbara App (2017):
YouTube
App on GooglePlay where people defend Israel on Social Platforms to gain points (2019):
GooglePlay
Intl Law:
Apartheid Against Palestinians:
Protected Wiki
International Law (Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 1949, UN Resolution 37/43) dictates that Palestinians have a legal right to an armed struggle to resist occupation:
Add. Protocol I, Geneva Conventions (PDF), UN Resolution 37/43 (PDF)
Israel's building of settlements in occupied territories such as the West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal under international law, violating Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 as well as the Statute of Rome, Art. 8 (2)(b)(viii) which states: "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.":
Wiki, UN, International Law on Occupation, Al Jazeera, Amnesty, Amnesty, B'Tselem, YouTube
Israel's destruction of homes in occupied territories such as the West Bank and East Jerusalem are illegal under international law, violating Article 53 of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 which states: "Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons ... is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.":
Fourth Geneva Convention (PDF)
Others:
Israeli former nuclear technician turned whistleblower was lured to Italy where Mossad drugged and abducted him back to Israel for the trial that was held secretly behind closed doors. He spent 18 years in prison, including more than 11 in solitary confinement. Says he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israeli authorities while imprisoned because he was Christian. After his release in 2004, he was subjected to a broad array of very strict restrictions on his speech and movement (1986):
Wiki, Youtube, NYT, Guardian, CNN, Wired, Telegraph
2nd Intifada, 12 yr old boy shot dead, father severely injured (2000):
CNN, Twitter
Breaking the silence - targeting civilians with grenades and machine guns during the 2nd Intifada (2000):
YouTube
5 Israelis working for an Israeli Company "Urban Moving Systems" were arrested on 9/11 after being seen photographing and celebrating the attack on the WTC. Owner of the company fled to Israel after the incident. FBI still lists him as a 9/11 suspect but Israel refuses to extradiate him (2001):
9/11 War by Deception, YouTube, Forward, NYT, Haaretz
Netanyahu caught on tape: "America is something that you can easily maneuver and move in the right direction" (2001):
YouTube
Netanyahu lying during his speech at the US House of Representatives on Saddam Hussiens WMDs which doesn't exist (2002):
YouTube
Advocating racial purity in Israel, Chinese workers in Israel sign no-sex contract (2003)
Guardian
Tom Hurndall, a British Peace Activist, was shot in the head by an IDF sniper while he was helping Palestinian children flee from cross-fire in Rafah, Gaza strip. His killer was released from prison 2 years early of his 8-year sentence (2003):
Wiki, BBC, Guardian, Evening Standard
Rachel Corrie, American Activist who was run over by an Israeli bulldozer destroying Palestinian homes in Gaza (2003):
Imgur, BBC
New Zealand imposed diplomatic sanctions on Israel over an incident where 2 Australia-based Israelis, who were allegedly working for Mossad, attempted to fraudulently obtain NZ Passports by claiming the identity of a disabled man. 2 others, Ze'ev Barkan and David Reznick, are believed to have been the 3rd and 4th men involved in the scandal but they managed to leave NZ before being apprehended. NZ PM viewed the incident as "not only utterly unacceptable but also a breach of NZ's sovereignty and international law". The following year, Israeli foreign minister apologized for the incident. (2004)
Wiki, NZHerald
Breaking the Silence, testimonies from IDF Whistleblowers (2004):
BreakingTheSilence
Not guilty, IDF Captain who empties his magazine on a 13yr old girl, says he would have done the same if she was 3 yrs old (2005):
Guardian
Phosphorus and cluster bombs which is illegal under international law heavily used by Israel during the Lebanon war (2006)
Haaretz
Israel celebrates Irgun Hotel Bombing (2006):
Telegraph
Former Israeli Foreign Minister Shlomo Ben Ami: “If I were a Palestinian, I Would Have Rejected Camp David” implying that the Camp David Summit Offer by Ehud Barak in 2000 was unreasonable and designed to be rejected (2006):
DemocracyNow
Jewish National Fund (a charity) owns 13% of the land in Israel and stipulates that only Jews can buy, mortgage or lease their land. (2007):
Economist, Wiki
Operation 'Cast Lead', estimated 1391 Palestinians killed, 759 to be civillians, 344 children, 110 women 13 Israeli killed, out of which 10 are soldiers (2008-2009):
BBC, Haaretz, Haaretz, Amnesty
Israel admits using White Phosphorus during their military offensive on Gaza (2009):
France24
Palestinian who claimed to be a Jew after a consensual sexual encounter with an Israeli woman jailed for 'Rape By Deception' (2010)
[ABCnews](https://abcnews.go.com/International/palestinian-claimed-jew-jailed-rape-deceptio
Israeli Organization, Kav La Oved: "Israel owes billions of shekels to Palestinian workers" (2010) (Downloadable PDF File):
KavLaOved PDF
Using Palestinian captives as human shields (2010):
Imgur, Guardian, Haaretz, Haaretz
Gaza Flotilla, Israeli Commandos raid 6 civillians ships carrying humanitarian aid and construction materials, 9 activists were killed, 10 Israeli commandos wounded (2010):
Guardian, CNN
Hashomer, Haganah, Irgun and Lehi which operated against the British Government and Arabs in Palestine used to hide weapons in synagogues, women's rooms and kindergartens. Something Israel criticises Hamas of doing today. (2011):
Haaretz
IDF soldier caught kicking a Palestinian child (2012):
RT
Hierarchy of the Human species according to Eli Ben-Dahan, Israel's former deputy minister of defense: Goyims (Non-Jews) placed below Homosexual Jews (2013):
Haaretz
Israeli Trade Minister: "I've killed alot of Arabs in my life, there's no problem with that" (2013)
JPost
IDF soldier posting an Instagram pic of a Palestinian clild in his rifle crosshairs (2013):
Guardian
Ethiopian Jews injected with contraceptive birth control without their consent (2013):
Haaretz, Independent, Guardian
In 2013, Israel awarded 'Genie Energy', an American Oil and Gas company, rights to drill in Golan Heights (Syrian territory occupied by Israel) despite international opposition. In 2015, Israel claimed a massive discovery of oil in the area, which Israeli officials reportedly believe could supply the country’s oil needs for many years to come. (2013):
Here are the prominent figures in Genie Energy's Board of Advisors:
Jacob Rothschild (British banker of the prominent Rothschild family), Dick Cheney (Ex-Vice president of USA), Rupert Murdoch (Billionaire American Media Mogul), James Woolsey (Ex-CIA Director), Lawrence Summers (Ex-Head of US Treasury), Bill Richardson (Ex-Energy Secretary of USA), Michael Steinhardt (Wall Street Trader, Investor and Hedge Fund Manager)
BusinessInsider, TRTworld, Yahoo Finance
4 boys playing soccer in an open beach bombed by an Israeli warship, a later report in 2018 then revealed that it was two missiles fired from an Israeli armed drone that actually killed the boys (2014):
NYT, Intercept, Haaretz, Independent
Israeli police officers beats up a 15yr old American boy a week after the boy's cousin was killed, no jail time was given to the officers (2014):
BBC, TimesofIsrael
Palestinian boy beaten and burned alive by Israeli settlers (2014):
Guardian, Wiki
Israelis cheering on the Gaza bombing (2014):
Guardian
Statistics of Palestinian children killed in Operation 'Protective Edge' (2014):
Telegraph
Avraham Shalom (Former Head of Shin Bet) compares Israel's Occupation to Nazi Germany's actions in WW2 towards the Czechs, Poles and Dutch (2014):
YouTube
Killing Gaza: Documentary on war crimes committed by the Israeli Military, with direct testimonies and evidence from survivors (2014):
KillingGaza
IDF beating up a Palestinian man who told them to stop firing tear gas (2015):
YouTube
Eli Ben-Dahan, Israel's former deputy defense minister: "Homosexual Jews are superior to Gentiles (Non-Jews), a jew always has a higher soul than a gentile, even if he is a homosexual" He also says "To me, they (Palestinians) are like animals, they aren't human" (2015):
TimesofIsrael
Israeli Foreign Minister says disloyal Arabs should be beheaded with an axe (2015):
WashingtonPost
Israeli Radicals celebrate by stabbing picture of Palestinian baby that was killed in a firebomb attack (2015):
Haaretz
Beitar Jerusalem, the most racist football fanbase in the world (2015):
YouTube
IDF Soldier assaults and beats up Palestinian Shopkeeper as he was loading boxes (2015):
YouTube
Former IDF Soldier Ido Gal Razon testifies to murdering people in Gaza (2015):
YouTube
Israeli racist police officer assaults their own african soldier (2015):
YouTube
Shir Hever, Israeli Economist: "78% of Palestinian aid money ends up going to Israel" (2015) (Downloadable PDF File):
ShirHever PDF
Brooke Goldstein (Director of the Lawfare Project who has assisted in many lawsuits towards Palestinian activist groups) declared to enthusiastic applause at a meeting of key Israel lobby operatives in New York: “Why are we using the word Palestinian? There’s no such thing as a Palestinian person” (2016)
Video
Many Palestinians including children are detained in Israeli prisons without trial or charges (2016):
Time, Haaretz, 972mag, B'Tselem
Jewish Community Watch: "Israel becoming a safe haven for paedophiles worldwide" (2016):
Independent
IDF Soldier throws disabled man out of his wheelchair after he attempts to help a 14yr old who was shot (2016):
Independent
IDF throws stun grenade at unarmed Palestinians talking outside their home (2016)
YouTube
IDF soldier laughs as Palestinian man is crushed at the gate (2016):
YouTube
IDF killing a 15yr old Palestinian travelling home from a family outing (2016):
Guardian
Report: Israel's repetitive destruction of EU-funded projects in Palestine (2016):
EuroMed
Former Director of Mossad defends Israel providing aid to Al-Nusra Front (Al-Qaeda's Affiliate) in Syria (2016)
Youtube, WSJ, Haaretz
Israeli Former Defence Minister says ISIS fighters apologizes to Israel after mistakenly launching an attack on IDF. Refused to comment on how they expressed their apology. Have since forgiven ISIS (2017)
Independent, DailySabah
Reports of Torture during custody from Palestinians held imprisoned without charges or trial (2017):
Haaretz
IDF Veteran: "I was the terrorist" (2017):
YouTube
Israel seizes solar panels donated to Palestinians by the Dutch govt (2017):
Independent
Israelis speak candidly about Palestinians to Abby Martin, includes lots of racism (2017):
YouTube
Gaza: World's Largest Open-Air Prison (2018):
NRC
Sentence to 9 Months after killing 2 unarmed Palestinian teens (2018):
972mag, WashingtonPost
Unarmed protestor holding flag shot by live bullets (2018):
YouTube
Unarmed protester shot in the head during the protest (2018):
Gyfcat
IDF assaulting medics and injured protesters (2018):
Gyfcat
Abdullah Shamali, was shot while standing and talking with his friends 700 metres away from the fence (2018):
Twitter
Muhammad Ayoub, 15yr old was shot in the head while running away from the fence (2018):
YouTube
Mentally disabled man shot in the back of his head as he was walking away (2018):
Haaretz
Elderly man waving a flag and a medic got shot at by a live round (2018):
Gyfcat
Shot dead for waving flag (2018):
EgyptToday
Medic shot dead by an IDF sniper (2018):
WashingtonPost
IDF edits video of Palestinian Medic who was shot dead by them to misleadingly show that she was a human shield for Hamas and justify her death (2018):
Independent, BuzzFeed
Canadian Doctor shot by IDF sniper (2018):
CBC
Israeli Border police throws stun grenade at a Palestian couple and their infant baby as they were fleeing (2018):
YnetNews
IDF Snipers cheering as they shoot an unarmed Palestinian (2018):
Guardian
Similar incident, cheering after shooting a Palestinian (2018):
Guardian
"Nation State" Law gives Jews exclusive rights over Arabs living in Israel (2018):
Guardian
List of active discriminatory laws in Israel:
Adalah
Did you know that 97% of drinking water in Gaza (under Israeli control) is contaminated? (2018):
Haaretz
IDF Soldiers shooting tear gas into a Palestinian school (2018):
Haaretz
Israeli settlers beating up Palestinian farmer in front of his children (2018):
Haaretz
Former Chairman of Israel Labour Party says relationships between Jews and Non-Jews are "an actual plague" (2018):
Twitter
4 year old child dies 4 days after being shot by the IDF while protesting (2018):
Reuters, PressTV
An alternative view, Palestinian Christians on Israel (2018):
Youtube
Chief Rabbi calls black people "monkeys" in his weekly sermon (2018):
TimesofIsrael
Israel's Supreme Court rejects legal challenge on the military's rule where soldiers can fire on UNARMED protesters (2018):
APNews
Mohammed Tamimi, 16, who was shot in the head by Israeli forces held in prison for 2 days without explanation (2018):
Haaretz, Haaretz
Most demonstrators shot by the IDF with live rounds are unarmed and not in immediate vicinity of the perimeter fence (2018):
B'Tselem
IDF edited out key footage of Gaza missile strike which killed 2 Palestinian teenagers (2018):
Youtube, 972mag, B'Tselem
Multi Award-winning short documentary on the occupation of Gaza (2018):
YouTube
What if your whole family was being forcefully evicted from a home you lived in since 1948 to make way for new settlers? (2019)
Haaretz
Palestinian Boy on the way to school shot in the head by Israeli Police (2019):
Haaretz
Video of war crimes screened at UN Human Rights Council (2019):
Youtube
Top Rabbis in Israel defending and calling for donations to an Israeli charged with killing a Palestinian woman (2019):
Haaretz, Haaretz
PART 2, 3, 4 & 5 CONTINUED IN COMMENT SECTION BELOW
submitted by invalidusermyass to list_palestine [link] [comments]

[Megathread] President Trump’s Address on Border Security and the Democratic Response (Part 2)

Please follow the comment guidelines - remain civil toward other users. Note that low effort or off topic discussion may be automatically removed in this thread
Tonight, President Trump will delivered prime-time Oval Office address to the nation, to discuss immigration and the ongoing government shutdown. The address aired on all major and cable networks. Directly following President Trump’s remarks was a response from Democratic leadership, including Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and Speaker of the House Rep. Nancy Pelosi. This also aired on the same major networks. Today marks the 18th day of a partial government shutdown, which has resulted in the closure of approximately 25% of federal agencies and left over 800,000 federal employees either out of work, or required to work without pay. President Trump has firmly stated that he will not agree to any spending bill that does not include the $5.7 billion in funding for his proposed Mexican border wall. In a statement released earlier today, the White House stated that Congress Must Do More to Address The Border Crisis.
A great recap of the shutdown, courtesy of Gabe Fleisher of Wake Up To Politics, can be found here
Additional links will be added later in the evening. Very special thanks to u/wil_daven_ for providing the write up.

Submissions that may interest you

SUBMISSION DOMAIN
Full text: Pelosi and Schumer respond to Trump's immigration speech politico.com
Democrats: Trump Has 'Chosen Fear' in Border Wall Fight thehill.com
Trump urges wall funding to fix border crisis in TV address miamiherald.com
Trump Gets Instant Fact-Check From Fox News' Shepard Smith After Oval Office Speech thedailybeast.com
Trump Appeals to Nation for Wall: ‘This Is a Choice Between Right and Wrong’ nytimes.com
Fact checking Trump's address to the nation: President claims 'growing' crisis on southern border nbcnews.com
Trump’s prime-time address on the border wall shutdown, annotated washingtonpost.com
Fact-checking Trump's immigration speech edition.cnn.com
Why Trump didn’t declare a national emergency over a border wall (yet) vox.com
Dem senator jokes about holding drinking game for Trump's primetime address thehill.com
Bernie Sanders to Trump: The Real 'Crisis' Is the 800,000 Federal Workers Not Getting Paid ijr.com
Fact check: Trump’s speech on the border ‘crisis’ politico.com
President Trump Urges Wall Funding to Fix the 'Humanitarian Crisis' on the Southern Border time.com
Trump mulls emergency powers ahead of prime-time speech reuters.com
Trump demands $5.7bn for steel barrier on Mexico border to end 'growing crisis' in televised address france24.com
Trump demands funding to end border 'crisis' in US TV address bbc.com
Trump says U.S. suffering from a 'crisis of the soul' in his plea for wall funds politico.com
What to Watch for in Trump’s National Address on Immigration nytimes.com
The Latest: Trump says illegal immigration is 'crisis' apnews.com
How can Trump sell his border wall to Americans using an argument built on lies? msnbc.com
Did Trump’s Oval Office Address Accomplish Anything? rollingstone.com
If they don't want a wall, what are Democrats' border security solutions? usatoday.com
Who is fact-checking Trump's speech on the wall? An award-winning team that's covered the topic for years usatoday.com
Three presidents, three speeches — and an immigration debate that has grown coarser washingtonpost.com
Watch Live: Trump’s prime-time immigration address pbs.org
Trump spruiks 'crisis' on border, Democrats demand government re-open theage.com.au
Donald Trump makes case for border wall to tackle 'humanitarian crisis' telegraph.co.uk
Trump's 2020 reelection campaign is sending fundraising emails for a 'border fund' in advance of his prime-time Oval Office address businessinsider.com
Despite what Trump has claimed, not a single mile of an extended wall has been built on the U.S.-Mexico border so far. nytimes.com
Trump undercuts his own messaging by trying to fundraise off the border “crisis” vox.com
Full text: Donald Trump's immigration address politico.com
Trump’s Overhyped Speech: The fight over gerrymandering moves to the next stage, and it’s a worrisome one. nytimes.com
Trump Spreads Lies In Televised Speech For Border Wall Funding huffingtonpost.com
Fox News’ Shep Smith fact-checks Trump address thehill.com
Trump Channels Hannity and Lou Dobbs, Fearmongers for the Wall thedailybeast.com
Trump’s frustrated sales pitch on the border wall reverts to his oldest political tactic: Fear washingtonpost.com
Trump warns of ‘crisis of heart’ in immigration address cnn.com
Trump’s big immigration speech was based on 2 false premises vox.com
Bernie Sanders Rebukes Trump for Stoking 'Fear and Hatred' With Lie-Soaked National Address commondreams.org
Trump told reporters border visit wouldn’t ‘change a damn thing, but I’m still doing it’: NYT thehill.com
Trump’s Border Wall Won’t Block the Drug ‘Pipeline’ reason.com
The Trump campaign is fundraising off of tonight’s address cnn.com
Read: Democrats' response to President Trump's Oval Office address cnn.com
The 6 falsehoods Trump recycled to sell his border wall on primetime TV news.vice.com
Trump speech: “Immigrants are coming over the border to kill you” is the only speech he knows how to give vox.com
Democratic leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer respond to Trump's speech on the shutdown stalemate cnbc.com
Pelosi, Schumer accuse Trump of using Oval Office speech 'to manufacture a crisis' nbcnews.com
Fact check: Trump repeated several misstatements during Oval Office speech usatoday.com
$5 billion question: How border-security experts would spend money Trump wants for a wall azcentral.com
There Was Only One New Lie in Trump's First Big Boy Speech esquire.com
AP FACT CHECK: Trump oversells wall as a solution to drugs apnews.com
Donald Trump Delivers a Wet Fart Oval Office Address thedailybeast.com
Trump campaign fundraises off president's Oval Office address on border security washingtontimes.com
Ingraham: Trump Scored 'Major Media Coup' With Nat'l Address on Border Security insider.foxnews.com
Anchors Scramble to Fact-Check Trump After Prime-Time Address nytimes.com
Many pundits rip Trump's border speech — both before and after foxnews.com
Trump makes grisly case for a border wall, describing beheadings and hammer murders cnbc.com
Fox News host Shep Smith wasted no time fact-checking Trump's address theweek.com
FACT CHECK: Trump's Oval Office Pitch For A Border Wall npr.org
In Oval Office Address, Trump Tries Reheating Old Immigration Gripes From the Campaign and Calling It a Crisis slate.com
Ocasio-Cortez after Trump speech: What about child who died in ICE custody on Christmas? usatoday.com
NYT: Trump didn’t even want to give that immigration speech vox.com
Trump’s immigration speech was an insult to the nation’s intelligence vox.com
Fear, Haterd And Un-American: Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Ridicual Trump’s Address newsweek.com
Pelosi And Schumer Become Instant Memes After Response To Trump’s Border Wall Speech huffingtonpost.com
Pelosi, Schumer spark laughs on social media for 'angry parents' rebuttal to Trump address foxnews.com
Bernie Sanders Calls Climate Change ‘Biggest Crisis Of All’ In Fiery Rebuke Of Trump Speech huffingtonpost.com
Donald Trump’s Border Speech Gets A Savage Instant Fact-Check On Fox News huffingtonpost.com
Trump could use his national address to lead the nation. Here's how. washingtonpost.com
Forget the wall. Trump is the national security crisis theglobeandmail.com
Trump backs himself into a corner on wall shutdown after TV address thestar.com
The Latest: McConnell says Trump's border plan suits reality boston.com
Trump’s Presidential Address Was a Big Non-Event newyorker.com
'Trump Is the National Crisis': Primetime Address Denounced as 'Bigoted, Childish Con Job' on American People commondreams.org
Kamala Harris hits Trump's border wall 'vanity project' abc7chicago.com
Donald Trump fuels immigration fears in TV address on 'border crisis' theguardian.com
People Bet On How Much Trump Would Lie In His Oval Office Address And Won $276,424 buzzfeednews.com
Democrats accuse Trump of 'misinformation and malice' as president declares 'humanitarian and security crisis' on border independent.co.uk
Trump calls Indian-origin police officer killed in US "American hero" presses for border wall independent.co.uk
Trump 'consults Fox News hosts Sean Hannity and Lou Dobbs over government shutdown' - Right-wing news journalists reportedly tell president to persist with border wall demand independent.co.uk
James Corden: 'American Ninja Warrior' More Patriotic Than Trump's Speech huffingtonpost.com
Bernie Sanders: Trump shouldn't 'create artificial crises' over border security, US has 'enough real crises' washingtonexaminer.com
Border wall speech: Trump is losing the macho game of staring himself down in the mirror theguardian.com
Donald Trump Jr. Says Border Wall Is Like A Zoo Fence Protecting You From Animals huffingtonpost.com
Massachusetts politicians respond to Trump’s first Oval Office address - The Boston Globe bostonglobe.com
Republican senators in bid to reopen US government without funding for Trump's wall independent.co.uk
Trump’s Speech Showed How Effective His Dangerous Rhetoric Could Be in the Hands of Someone Competent slate.com
Trump uses Oval Office speech to raise money for reelection msnbc.com
Ana Navarro Rips ‘Pathologically’ Lying Trump On Border Wall Speech huffingtonpost.com
Holding America 'hostage': Trump's speech draws renewed racism charges as critics pinpoint falsehoods, Republicans applaud nydailynews.com
Donald Trump Did Not Want to Give National Speech, Thinks Border Visit is a Waste of Time: New York Times Journalist newsweek.com
Trump demands border wall: Dems say he deals in 'fear, not facts' aljazeera.com
Texas border communities cringe as Trump sounds alarm over wall houstonchronicle.com
Wednesday US briefing: Trump offers no shutdown solution in TV address theguardian.com
Trump speech: Twitter pokes fun of Schumer, Pelosi 'hostage tape,' 'American Gothic' vibe usatoday.com
'Where Are The Pesos?' Ex-GOP Strategist Taunts Trump Over Wall Funding huffingtonpost.com
7 Takeaways From President Trump's Oval Office Address npr.org
Trump Delivers Border Wall Speech Beside Photo of His Immigrant Mom yahoo.com
Trump’s $5 billion border wall plan could wreak environmental havoc, causing rivers to flood and animals to become 'zombie species' businessinsider.com
‘Chuck and Nancy’ present a united front in challenging Trump on border wall washingtonpost.com
Trump Tells TV Anchors Before Speech That Border Trip Is Just A Photo Op talkingpointsmemo.com
In prime-time address, Trump argues national security 'crisis' at southern border abcnews.go.com
Forget the wall. Trump is the national security crisis theglobeandmail.com
House Democrats to test Republicans on Trump’s wall demand reuters.com
Democrats Focus on Shutdown’s Cost and Steer Away From Trump’s Wall nytimes.com
Democrats: Trump using misinformation, malice in wall debate apnews.com
Fox's Levin slams Schumer, Pelosi response to Trump address: 'They are pathological liars' thehill.com
TV hosts say Trump speech lacked news. Dems say told you so. politico.com
The Corrupting Falsehoods of Trump’s Oval Office Speech newyorker.com
The new Russia revelations are more consequential than Trump’s newsless immigration speech washingtonpost.com
Trump wall debate an internal U.S. matter: Mexico president reuters.com
Florida reacts to Trump’s prime time speech: ‘Stop your temper tantrum,’ ‘You have to control your borders’ tampabay.com
Trump Jr. endorses border wall by saying they protect people from zoo animals. cbsnews.com
Damned if they do: Trump played TV networks with dishonest address and they fell for it again salon.com
O'Rourke hits El Paso streets to rebut Trump's immigration address politico.com
Can Donald Trump really afford to jettison his economic policy over the Mexican border wall? independent.co.uk
Bernie Sanders responds to Trump Oval Office address: Trump trying to 'create fear and hatred' thehill.com
Trump Jr. suggests border wall is like a zoo fence - protection from animals haaretz.com
People who bet on how many lies Trump would tell during his Oval Office address won more than $270,000 businessinsider.com
Trump's speech ratings were even worse than you might have thought washingtonpost.com
Fact check: Trump's speech on the border wall mercurynews.com
'Played': Networks face blowback over decision to air Trump address nbcnews.com
Trump’s wall won’t do anything about the opioid epidemic vox.com
No, Trump Can’t Use an Emergency Declaration To Build a Wall nationalreview.com
Reality check: Cost of Trump's border wall is 0.0338 percent of federal spending, says new analysis m.washingtontimes.com
Shutdown impasse: Trump heads to the Hill after Oval Office address washingtonpost.com
Donald Trump Jr. Says Border Wall Is Like A Zoo Fence Protecting You From Animals yahoo.com
Rubio warns Trump a border emergency could embolden a future Dem president on climate change cnbc.com
Trump undercuts his own messaging by trying to fundraise off the border “crisis” vox.com
submitted by PoliticsModeratorBot to politics [link] [comments]

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